Race & Place: Oral Histories

Interview of Mrs. Eugenia Durrett on August 30, 2002, by Sarah Lawrence of the Race and Place Project. (Oral History)
Biographical Information Eugenia Durrett was born in Esmont in 1932, and raised there until age sixteen, when she went to college at Virginia Union University. Her father died before Eugenia was born, and her mother raised her, working as a housekeeper in a white woman's home in Esmont. Housed on the property separately, Durrett recalls all the help she provided her mother at her job, as well as how her mother was allowed to entertain her own friends in the home of the white woman while she was away for the winter. She reminisces about the Esmont School, where "we knew all about black history." After divorcing her first husband, Durrett moved back to Esmont from Richmond and quickly got a job as a teacher at Esmont School, eager to carry on in that spirit. Durrett remembers how women used to instruct the girls in the Juvenile Club on how to be a "lady." She details community life generally, emphasizing its family orientation. She describes the annual Field Day, the fall festival where people would present their farm and home practices as part of the agricultural extension program, and carpooling strategies to shuttle the children around. Durrett remembers children visiting each other Christmas mornings, people of all ages gathering around a neighbor's radio for a Joe Louis fight or the World Series, and the church's role in caring for the community's needy. She discusses how many women were "born nurses" and other aspects of health care. She remembers friction among Esmont's youth, especially boys, being not about race as much as about neighborhood turf. Finally, Mrs. Durrett comments on the impact of World War II on Esmont, including rationing and building a memorial for the community's slain. Project Description Race and Place is a project of the Virginia Center for Digital History and the Carter G. Woodson Institute for Afro-American and African Studies. The goal of the project is to chronicle the life of African-Americans in the Charlottesville, Virginia area during the period of segregation. As part of this project we have conducted a series of interviews with current residents of the Charlottesville area who were alive during that period. The project has also incorporated oral interviews conducted by other Charlottesville institutions which cover the appropriate subject area. Notes About Our Transcription The transcripts represent what was said in the interview to the best of our ability. It is possible that some words, particularly names, have been misspelled. Where we did not feel sure of spellings we have indicated this by the use of the term 'phonetically' in parentheses following the word in question. Places where words were unclear are noted by 'inaudible'. Brackets have been used to indicate additions made to the text upon review by the interviewee. We have made no attempt to correct mistakes in grammar.

Ms. Lawrence:	Today is August 30, 2002. This is Sarah Lawrence, interviewing Mrs. Eugenia Durrett in her home in Charlottesville. Good morning.
Mrs. Durrett:	Good morning.
Ms. Lawrence:	Would you please state for the record your full name?
Mrs. Durrett:	Eugenia Hudson Durrett.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And could you spell your last name please?
Mrs. Durrett:	D.U.R.R.E.T.T.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And, could you tell me when and where you were born?
Mrs. Durrett:	I was born in Esmont, Virginia. Albemarle County. You want my birthday?
Ms. Lawrence:	Yes that'd be great.
Mrs. Durrett:	Okay. July the 21st, 1932.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And could you tell me, if you remember, when and where your grandparents, on both sides, were born. And their names I suppose.
Mrs. Durrett:	Okay. On my mother's side, my grandfather was born in Goochland County, Virginia.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	My grandmother was born in Esmont, Virginia.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Ms. Lawrence:	What were their names?
Mrs. Durrett:	Julian and Chaney Copeland.
Ms. Lawrence:	And Chaney, how do you spell Chaney?
Mrs. Durrett:	C.H.A.N.E.Y.
Ms. Lawrence:	A.N.E.Y. Copeland, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	C.O.P.E.L.A.N.D.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And on your father's -
Mrs. Durrett:	That was my mother's side. On my father's side, my grandmother was Ella Hudson Johnson.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	And she was also born in, I'm not exactly sure. I think she was born in Albemarle County, whether it was Esmont or not, I'm not sure.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Grandfather I don't know.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And that's your paternal grandmother. And your parents, their names?
Mrs. Durrett:	Eugene -
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Hudson. And my mother was Anna Copeland Hudson.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And they were both born in Esmont?
Mrs. Durrett:	Both born in Esmont.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Um, do you know what year?
Mrs. Durrett:	I don't - Oh yeah, my mother was born September 24, 1906.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And your father -
Mrs. Durrett:	My father, well he was twenty five years older than my mother so you have - And he died three months before I was born, so I never saw my father.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay. All right. Um, so you grew up in Esmont -
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	- when your father died, did your mother still stay in her home or did she move in with her parents or anything?
Mrs. Durrett:	My mother was living with her father at the time, but she was doing domestic work and she was also able to stay on the place where she worked. So my grandfather died when I was about six or seven, and that's when we just moved with the lady that my mother worked for.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Who was that?
Mrs. Durrett:	Her name was Donna Dickie Lloyd. L.L.O.Y.D.
Ms. Lawrence:	Hm. Okay. And that was in Esmont?
Mrs. Durrett:	That was in Esmont.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Do you remember where that was located, her house? Well obviously you do, if you lived with her.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. Um, it was near the Van Cliefs, it was near Nydrie Farm. And that's, it was right there in Esmont.
Ms. Lawrence:	So on Porter's Road?
Mrs. Durrett:	Porter's Road - I'm trying to think of that route that goes down, probably, it's probably Route 715.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, okay. I think I come there from Keene when I drive.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah, and it, and when you turn on like Route 627, make a left turn to come down to the Porter's area, to go to where that house is you just go maybe three city blocks straight down on 715.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. I know just where that is, all right. So you lived with her. Um, and your mother and did you have siblings?
Mrs. Durrett:	No.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Could you, let's see, before I go into kind of life there, uh, could you describe your schooling. When you went to school, and where you went to school.
Mrs. Durrett:	I went to school, all of my schooling was in Esmont. We didn't have kindergarten at that time, so I went from first grade to eleventh grade. Back in those days our schools only went up until eleventh grade. And I'd walk to school everyday, because the county would say we were too close to school to provide a bus for us. So that's why I attended Esmont elementary school and of course it was a high school there also. So I -
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm. That was a good distance.
Mrs. Durrett:	It was a good distance to walk.
Ms. Lawrence:	And you went there starting when? Kindergarten?
Mrs. Durrett:	We didn't have kindergarten.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay, I'm sorry. First grade?
Mrs. Durrett:	I believe I started 193- must have been 1938 I believe. And I graduated in 1949.
Ms. Lawrence:	So you, that's right, okay. And do you remember any teachers in particular?
Mrs. Durrett:	I remember, yes, one of my favorite teachers was Mrs. Virginia Keys Yancey, who just died maybe last year. She lived on Rose Hill Drive. Our principal was a Mr. Faulkner. Back in those days we loved most of all of our teachers. They were strict but we loved them.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	Because they instilled in us a whole lot of things that we all remember today.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, like what?
Mrs. Durrett:	Although the school was not a very good building, but we knew all about black history. That was taught to us. We knew that. We had to give the pledge, and repeat a bible verse every day. We had chores that we had to do, we had to, the girls would sweep the floor, and they went in alphabetical order, and the boys would bring in the coal to keep the fire going. Our parents paid, later years, our parents paid a custodian to come and start the fire for us. And, because the county did not do that. They might have supplied some of the coal. But you, the teacher had to come and start the fire and everything. So, we had a potbellied stove. And there was no cafeteria or anything so you had to bring your own lunch. But the teachers were strict but they were loving, and kind to you, and they instilled a lot of things in us. When I went to college, I was able to find the percentage in a math class, I didn't learn in college, I learned that in Esmont School. I only had one deficiency when I went to college, and that was in algebra, and that was because students who had gone through twelfth grade had two years of algebra. At our school we graduated eleventh grade so I only had one year of algebra. That was my only deficiency.
Ms. Lawrence:	So you could get into college having gone just through the eleventh grade?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes that was graduation. You had a diploma and everything.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	In the state of Virginia that was a -
Ms. Lawrence:	That was all you needed.
Mrs. Durrett:	That was normal. Maybe in cities like Richmond, they might have gone to twelfth grade.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. For blacks and whites?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. I'm guessing in Richmond. I only know about Albemarle County and you know, this part of Virginia.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Right. How, did you learn black history through textbooks?
Mrs. Durrett:	Textbooks. We had pictures all around the wall. We did reports on them. They provided books for us to get information from. It was sort of like an oral history, we just passed it down.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm.
Mrs. Durrett:	Even to this day people of my generation will stand in church and sing the Negro National Anthem without looking in the book. That was just drilled into us. That was part of our formal education.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right right. So of those people on the walls at school, could you just, could you name a couple of those people?
Mrs. Durrett:	Mary Bethune, Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, off the top of my head those are the ones I can remember.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, yeah, yeah. And what else did you study in school? Or I guess, aside from the basic subjects, I'm kind of wondering, what other things?
Mrs. Durrett:	We had, we always, Esmont is known for good singing, so we always had a good choir, high school choir. And we would go to places, like in Charlottesville, just for, I'm not going to say competition, just to appear in programs. And of course we, at church, we did that. We studied - oh I can see that thick geography book right now. And a history book, we had algebra, we had geometry, we had English, writing, spelling, all of those -
Ms. Lawrence:	Any languages?
Mrs. Durrett:	Latin.
Ms. Lawrence:	Ah.
Mrs. Durrett:	Those were -
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh you look like you enjoyed that. (Chuckle)
Mrs. Durrett:	I think I did. Because, the principal made it - the principal was a part time principal and he taught also. And he taught us Latin. And it was fun because after we did the basic, then we had to do conversational Latin where you go up in front of the class and carry on a conversation. So when I got to college and took French, I was kind of used to getting up speaking with another person in a foreign language.
Ms. Lawrence:	That's hard.
Mrs. Durrett:	It was hard but everybody had to do it so you just, I just took a positive attitude because I there to do what I had to do and finish.
Ms. Lawrence:	Could you expand on, you said they were strict but loving. Could you talk about the strict side?
Mrs. Durrett:	Oh that was discipline, no doubt about it. Then the first principal, when I went to school, was a H. L. Sommeral (Phonetically). And we had, as I said, elementary and high school. Every morning when we were ringing the bell you lined up outside. And you marched in according to your grade. Which meant the first graders went in first. The eleventh graders were in last. And there was not a sound made.
Ms. Lawrence:	Wow.
Mrs. Durrett:	And you took that quietness into the classroom.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh.
Mrs. Durrett:	I remember that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	And, we had May Day activities where you wrap the Maypole. We had Field Day activities where we competed, where Washington Park is now - it was still Washington Park - it was all black at the time - and we competed with the other black high school in the county. Albemarle County had two black high schools; that was Albemarle Training School, and we competed in all types of games. Dodgeball, Flag relay, and we ended with, I'm not, I don't know if it was softball or baseball - the girls would play, and then the boys would play - we, most the time, we came in with more points than the other school.
Ms. Lawrence:	Well. What position did you play?
Mrs. Durrett:	I only played in dodgeball and Flag relay where you would take a stick and you'd run back and forth and (Cough) excuse me, and I played on that team. There was a lot of teamwork.
Ms. Lawrence:	Did you have any kind of award ceremony or anything?
Mrs. Durrett:	(Cough) No.
Ms. Lawrence:	No?
Mrs. Durrett:	No.
Ms. Lawrence:	Just for the experience of it?
Mrs. Durrett:	Experience and the fact that you could share your talents with other people, and the community supported us.
Ms. Lawrence:	So the community from Charlottesville would come out and watch?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, we went to Charlottesville.
Ms. Lawrence:	But I mean, -
Mrs. Durrett:	For the competition.
Ms. Lawrence:	- once you were there, did, who, who was the audience at the competition in Charlottesville at Washington Park?
Mrs. Durrett:	Our parents, and parents from the other community. At that time I don't know if anyone from Charlottesville attended or not. They probably did because we had people who had gone to both of those schools who were living in Charlottesville and it was always on a Saturday. And it was always a lot of people there, and I'm pretty sure that some of those people, like who would go, before we graduated, before we came back, if they were in the area. You know, for that. It was a big thing.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. Was there food?
Mrs. Durrett:	Food. Ice cream and hot dogs. And if I can recall, you had to buy it yourself.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. So a big event?
Mrs. Durrett:	It was a big event. And it was an all-day event.
Ms. Lawrence:	And anything else going on besides sports? Singing -
Mrs. Durrett:	No, that was it.
Ms. Lawrence:	Just sports, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	And it was called a Field Day.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. Did any whites attend?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, not that I recall.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And when you, did you transport yourself on buses here or did your parents drive you or?
Mrs. Durrett:	(Cough) There was a man in the community who had a truck, and he would transport some of the people by truck. My mother always hired a car and sent me over and she came later. And I'm sure other parents did the same thing.
Ms. Lawrence:	Hire a car like a taxi?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, just the one in the community.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay. Mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	I guess he was a community taxi because he was the man who - his name was Edward Swan, S.W.A.N. - and he would also take people to Charlottesville to do their shopping and all.
Ms. Lawrence:	Was this the man with the truck or a different man?
Mrs. Durrett:	He was the man with the car. The man with the truck was Mr. Townsend, T.O.W.N.S.E.N.D., Carey, C.A.R.E.Y.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh. Did he own a store at some point?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. He owned a store. And most of the boys rode on the truck, and parents provided transportation more or less for girls.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay the private, more private.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Did you combine with other girls, car pool?
Mrs. Durrett:	In the car? I'm sure I did.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. Just seems like it would make sense.
Mrs. Durrett:	I'm sure I did, yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	All right. Wow, that was a lot of information on the school. Um, how about social clubs when you were young? Did you belong to any social clubs?
Mrs. Durrett:	We had 4-H Club.
Ms. Lawrence:	"Voice" did you say? (interviewer mishears)
Mrs. Durrett:	4-H.
Ms. Lawrence:	4-H, that's right, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	4-H Club. In the community there was a civic organization called the Odd Fellows. They still own their building there. The women were called the Household of Ruth, which is still functioning there. And then the children's part was called The Juveniles. And we participated in that. I can't remember how often we met, but we met in that hall and the ladies came and they did projects with us.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, the Odd Fellows Hall?
Mrs. Durrett:	The Odd Fellows Hall. We did projects there. That was the meeting place. That's where we had our 4-H meetings. And we had a county agent who would come out and do activities and things with us.
Ms. Lawrence:	What was his or her name?
Mrs. Durrett:	James Butler. One of the schools that just opened is named after him.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. So he was from the county. And what would he teach you?
Mrs. Durrett:	He would come out and, he met, we had a Progressive Club in Esmont, and that's what he came out to talk to the parents about, how to raise, how to produce on your land. He was an Agriculture major. And that was his job. But for us he would come up and do certain projects, you know, with us. Fun like projects, you know, with us. And also we had an agricultural class but I think that man was Chelsea Clark, C.L.A.R.K. But I think he only dealt with the high school boys.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Were both these men black?
Mrs. Durrett:	Both, all of these were black people. And Mr. Clark died maybe three or four years ago. But -
Ms. Lawrence:	Just the boys you said?
Mrs. Durrett:	Just the boys that I can remember.
Ms. Lawrence:	Would a girl be able to go?
Mrs. Durrett:	We got Home Ec. [Economics]
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Where they taught you sewing. I can remember in third grade we made - I can't think of those little, I can't think of the names, but we had to make those little round things, but then you put it all together and it became a quilt. That's what the elementary kids did.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. So, this James Butler and who was the Home Ec. person? Was that an agent, a county agent also?
Mrs. Durrett:	Mr. Butler was a county agent. Everything else was taught by the classroom teacher.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. So Home Ec. was taught by the classroom teacher. And the county agent - sorry to dwell on this, but - did he teach elementary school kids? Was that the 4-H? How old were you when you were in the 4-H Club? Starting when?
Mrs. Durrett:	I was in elementary school.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	I was in elementary school when they did that.
Ms. Lawrence:	And the Juveniles, of the Household of Ruth, what did you do in that club?
Mrs. Durrett:	We learned about the organization. They taught us things like manners and how to carry yourself like ladies and gentleman. I think the boys were in there too. And they were grooming us, hopefully, that we would become members when we got old enough, to join the Household of Ruth, which was the ladies, or the Odd Fellows, which were the men's. I never joined that. But I graduated sixteen, so when I went away to college at sixteen, I didn't come back home until, you know, later. But I - I mean to live - but I always came back home, you know, to visit and all.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Could you elaborate a little bit on the manners and what it meant to be a lady? That kind of stuff you were taught?
Mrs. Durrett:	Well, you always carried yourself as a lady. Chewing gum was not ladylike. Um, cleanliness was next to godliness. And we respected those ladies, very much, because if not they were going to tell our parents anyway. And we did, like, skits, and also - no that was not Juveniles, that was the church - but they just taught us things that would help you to become a - oh and how to take care of kids, you know, if you, when you become a mother. They taught you things like that. To take care of your family, stick together. They helped us to survive.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. So they really got into - you said stick together - they went beyond -
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah, community pride. Support your family, support your friends, support your family and your community. Let's keep it clean, and things of that nature.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. Clean not just in the sanitary sense but clean in a moral sense?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, moral sense and then, I can remember when we would have, back to the Progressive Club, every Fall, they would have like a, I'm going to call it a Fall Festival. I don't think that's what it was called but it was sort of like a Fall Festival. They were going to exhibit. And the ladies, the ladies would - we had talented people, people who do crochet, and they brought all their wares and things from the gardens. And there were prizes given. And there were, you had blue ribbons and whatever. That was through the county extension. And we always had like bingo at night, that was a big thing. And -
Ms. Lawrence:	For the youngsters as well?
Mrs. Durrett:	For the youngsters as well. All these things were more or less family oriented.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Because most of our parents worked in domestic. And at night was the only time that the families could get together and do all these things, and everything was family oriented.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. So you mean even on the weekends they worked -
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes they worked on weekends.
Ms. Lawrence:	Like during the day.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And so there was a big age range clearly. The whole community would do this?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah, whole community. But as I started to say, when we would have that exhibit, that was in the Fall, and when Revivals were going at your church, your homecoming, the people in the community cleaned up. The white fence, they whitewashed it. They trimmed the hedges and then everybody went and cleaned up the churchground and everything. Everything was done, that's why Esmont's such a closeknit community. We have a lot of people there now who were not original from Esmont, but when it was just mostly the community people there we tried to take pride. And we supported each other's churches. All of us didn't go to the same church.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	But we supported each other's churches.
Ms. Lawrence:	Which church did you go to?
Mrs. Durrett:	I go to New Green Mountain.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Do you still go?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, every Sunday.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh, okay. And supporting each other's churches, I know that you all went to each other's Revivals, right? In the summer you'd go to a different church every Sunday in August or something like that?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	What about during the year, did you go to different churches then?
Mrs. Durrett:	Back in my day we had two churches right there in Esmont. There's another black church at Keene, and another in the Esm - part of Esmont, it's called Chestnut Grove area. But New Green Mountain, New Hope, alternated Sundays. Like one was the first and third Sunday, another was the second and fourth Sunday. And I go to my church the first and third, go to the other church the second and fourth. Because all of us had family and friends in both churches.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. But you definitely called it "my church" -
Mrs. Durrett:	My church.
Ms. Lawrence:	- so you had a first, a primary church that you liked.
Mrs. Durrett:	That church. And you supported that church, financially.
Ms. Lawrence:	Ah, I see. Okay. Um, and you mentioned something about you were going on, on the direction of the Juveniles, but then you said 'oh no, that was the church club,' so, there was some church club?
Mrs. Durrett:	Well in church we had Sunday School. And back in those days you had, you had, Easter program, every holiday you had a program that was put on by the youth of the church. And those ladies met with us after school. We stopped by the church for rehearsal.
Ms. Lawrence:	Hm. For how many weeks up before the -
Mrs. Durrett:	Oh I can't remember. Maybe November and December. Like for Christmas.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	And then leading up to Easter - I can't remember, maybe a couple months, leading up to that. And we would stop by the church and they would have, and we'd have it on a Sunday afternoon, and people from the community would come in and see the young people perform.
Ms. Lawrence:	A play?
Mrs. Durrett:	Play. Recitations. And it prepared us to go into the world where we could become speakers and not - we went, when we got to high school you'd be used to speaking in front of other people. And we've kind of lost that. But by not having a bus to take us to school, we were walking to school, when we got to the point where you, buses like, when it became an elementary school, they had buses there then to bus the kids to school -
Ms. Lawrence:	By the time you were -
Mrs. Durrett:	In Esmont. The time I went back and taught in Esmont.
Ms. Lawrence:	Ah, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	The later years. They had a bus to pick up the children. So you're on a bus schedule you cannot stay after school for anything.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	But see we were able to stay after school, practice.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. Every day for the play?
Mrs. Durrett:	If you needed it.
Ms. Lawrence:	Wow.
Mrs. Durrett:	For a school play. We had school plays also.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh, uh-huh. So, what else did you do after school. I mean in terms of the, the school-related activities. Any other?
Mrs. Durrett:	Not, not a whole lot after that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Um, oh but we were talking about church anyways, that's the church - (Phone rings and tape is temporarily turned off)
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, we're back. Is it working? Yes. Um, okay, so we were talking about the church, practicing for the church plays after school, right.
Mrs. Durrett:	See back in those days church and school -
Ms. Lawrence:	You can keep talking. (Durrett paused when Lawrence checked to make sure tape recorder was taping)
Mrs. Durrett:	- was the community.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, right.
Mrs. Durrett:	And there were these other organizations too. That was our social life, our spiritual life, our educational life.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. Because you didn't have, or, did you have, I should ask, um, commercial leisure venues, like movie theater, you didn't have things like that, right, in Esmont?
Mrs. Durrett:	We could go to Scottsville to a movie. You could also go to movies in Charlottesville. But a lot of people did not have transportation. And so that's why you did create your own fun.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Could you talk a little bit about playing with kids in the neighborhood when you were young?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, we played with our family members and friends. And back in those days your parents told you what time to go to Ms. So-and-so's house and what time to leave. And if you were playing beyond your time the mother of that house would come and say, 'okay, it's time for you all to leave now.' Because everybody had chores to do. And everybody, you obeyed every adult in the community. And we played and then we would go home and do our chores and that was it. I can remember Christmas morning was the one time that we could eat sweets before breakfast. If you had some candy or something, you could eat that. And that evening at dark we would go from one end of Esmont down to the other, through that little part there, and visiting with each other, it was just a good feeling. Visit to see what you have gotten for Christmas. Christmas back then was a big deal. Right now, our young people now have Christmas everyday.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	But I think all that helped us to bond with each other.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. So would you visit as a family or -
Mrs. Durrett:	No, just the children, the children.
Ms. Lawrence:	Just the children? On Christmas day?
Mrs. Durrett:	Christmas morning. Early Christmas morning. Then you went back home and with your family and had your big dinners and all.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	What else happened Christmas? I mean, did you have visitors at your house for dinner?
Mrs. Durrett:	People came in all the time. I can remember my mother always kept plenty of ham because when people came by you offered them a ham sandwich. And of course those ladies, you know, were good cooks, they had homemade pies and cakes, whatever. Yeah, oh yeah you visited during the Christmas. Most everything was done at night, because as I said most of the people worked in domestic. So nighttime was when we walked and visited.
Ms. Lawrence:	You mean generally? Aside from Christmas, you mean just during the normal part of the year?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. So, you, are you talking again, as a youngster on your own, visiting your friends, or with your mother?
Mrs. Durrett:	With my mother.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. You would go visit neighbors?
Mrs. Durrett:	We would visit neighbors.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Can you name some of those neighbors that you remember? Either children you played with or your mother's friends.
Mrs. Durrett:	The Boldens. The Wards. The Gardners. There was some Copelands there then. The Swinglers, the Johnsons. Paiges. Fords. Were most of the ones that we visited there. And that was like from where I lived down to a little below our church. Which is where, do you know where the W.D.Ward Center is?
Ms. Lawrence:	That, is that just beyond the church?
Mrs. Durrett:	Just beyond the church.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, yes.
Mrs. Durrett:	And we visited just a little below that. Oh another, oh a dear family, the Thomases.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Are these your good friends, your childhood families?
Mrs. Durrett:	These are my good friends til now.
Ms. Lawrence:	What are their first names?
Mrs. Durrett:	All these people or just the Thomases?
Ms. Lawrence:	The, well, Thomases.
Mrs. Durrett:	Okay, Margaret, Alva, Elizabeth, Leroy -
Ms. Lawrence:	That was Alva, A.L.V.A.?
Mrs. Durrett:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. So those were your child, your kind of playmates?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, yeah. And of course I said the Paiges, that's Lorraine. She was a Bolden. Her brother John, her sister Calista, all the Wards, I think there were eight of them. That's Nancy Luck now.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	Her family. Nelsons. The Gardners. They all, we just all, we just like one big family.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. What did you guys do as kids, to play?
Mrs. Durrett:	What did we do? Play hide and seek, as youngsters. And then when we became teenagers we could, like, go and visit, probably listen to the record player. That was always, we were allowed to go to these homes but there was always an adult there. We were never unattended. There was always an adult.
Ms. Lawrence:	Except maybe when you were out on the street or playing hide and seek?
Mrs. Durrett:	That was done in the yard. We played in yards. Yeah, we didn't play in the road.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	We were at someone's home, and we would go in the yard and play.
Ms. Lawrence:	Where would you hear the Victrola? Or the record player?
Mrs. Durrett:	At John Bolden. And my Aunt, the Swinglers.
Ms. Lawrence:	She was an aunt?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, my mother's sister. Probably the Johnsons. The Johnsons were relatives of mine, and their father, that's Andrew Johnson I'm talking about, and we didn't have but a few radios, and of course Joe Louis was a very important man to us. And when Joe Louis was fighting we would gather around the radio, but you couldn't say a word because everybody was listening. The World Series was another time that you could get to someone's house and you would listen. But you couldn't talk, you know, that's why the World Series now doesn't mean as much to me. Because back in those days, you probably just had the American League, the National League, you didn't have all these different teams. So we would pick one team, and the World Series was a big deal for the men in the community. And the children were allowed to just sit around and listen, and then share the excitement. But see all of that, all of that was bonding us. And we enjoyed, one thing we enjoyed each other's company.
Ms. Lawrence:	Didn't need a lot of -
Mrs. Durrett:	Didn't need a - and I don't, I'm not going to say everybody didn't have some type of disagreement but we never had those big fights and things like that. First of all, it wasn't going to be allowed.
Ms. Lawrence:	Among the children?
Mrs. Durrett:	Among the children, from the adults. And, we had, I'm sure everybody didn't agree on everything but we were able to work out whatever differences that we might have had.
Ms. Lawrence:	Did you go to a store that had a record player? I heard about a store this store having a record player.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, the Thomas that I'm talking about, their grandmother, Thomas's store. We didn't have a lot of telephones, and back in those days when school would close, we still stayed at school, played the piano, I was one of the piano players. We played the piano and we danced -
Ms. Lawrence:	At school?
Mrs. Durrett:	At school. And of course the bus, we had people coming in from North Garden, South Garden, Colesville, Schuyler, Scottsville, Keene, Sand Road. They all came to Esmont for high school.
Ms. Lawrence:	Is this when you taught or -
Mrs. Durrett:	No no no, because I'm a student.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	But bad days, when they closed the school, those buses didn't run. So it was just the Esmont kids at the Thomas Store. Where Miss Adele (Phonetically), the owner of the store, she was always around and she always made - it was a jukebox. And I think probably we had a nickel that we could put in or either she fixed it so we could have the music. And we would dance, maybe buy a soda or something. And we still would get home the regular day. Our parents knew where we were.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh. Okay. So that was the, what -
Mrs. Durrett:	That was like when school closed for snow.
Ms. Lawrence:	For snow. That was kind of special?
Mrs. Durrett:	That was special.
Ms. Lawrence:	All right. But your parents always knew where you were.
Mrs. Durrett:	They knew where we were.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. And there were boys and girls who did that together?
Mrs. Durrett:	Boys and girls, yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Which segues into dating. Did you do any dating as a teenager in Esmont?
Mrs. Durrett:	I'm not going to answer that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay (Chuckle). All right. Um, what else now? These trips to -
Mrs. Durrett:	I dated a little bit.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay, that's fine. Um, did you go to Scottsville and Charlottesville much?
Mrs. Durrett:	Scottsville I don't want to talk about, not on record.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. And Charlottesville?
Mrs. Durrett:	We went to Charlottesville occasionally.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh. As a, with your mother or just alone?
Mrs. Durrett:	With my mother, with my mother.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay with your mother. And what would you go there for?
Mrs. Durrett:	Shop. Well I was going to say, I was raised where my mother worked, and my mother ran everything. So we would go to Charlottesville to shop for the house.
Ms. Lawrence:	Of course, right. Once a week or something?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. There was a store, I guess it probably turned into, no, Food of All Nations. I don't think Food of All Nations was in existence then. I think it was Stop and Shop. It was downtown on the mall. The building is, but I think it's a bank in that building now. And we would go there and shop but see, what my mother did, she would just call the order in and just go pick it up, back in those days. But then if there was something I wanted special she would buy that for me herself. And then we would go to the, you know, buy some clothes. But down in the lower part of Esmont, they had stores down there also, where you could buy material and, one was the Steed's store, S.T.E.E.D., and Mrs. Payne, Mrs. Douglas -
Ms. Lawrence:	Mrs. - did they own Steed's?
Mrs. Durrett:	No no, these are three different stores.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh different stores, okay. Mrs. Payne's store -
Mrs. Durrett:	P.A.Y.N.E.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, and then -
Mrs. Durrett:	Steed, S.T.E.E.D. And Mrs. Douglas. They ran the stores. And we could cut through the woods and go down - that's where the post office was, that's where the train station was, and we would walk down there. And of course we had stores on the upper part of Esmont also, grocery stores.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Now, the lower part of Esmont was the white area?
Mrs. Durrett:	They were the white area.
Ms. Lawrence:	So those were all white stores? Steeds, Payne, Douglas.
Mrs. Durrett:	All white stores. Mm-hm.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Um, and, could you try on clothing at those stores?
Mrs. Durrett:	No.
Ms. Lawrence:	No. Just the blacks could not, is that right?
Mrs. Durrett:	They didn't have clothes. Mrs. Steed had material. Sometimes the mothers would go there and buy material and go back home and make the clothes. I don't remember any dresses already made there.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay. Uh, could we talk a little bit about the whites in Esmont and how much they were part of your life? I mean, obviously you lived in a white household, but what about other (Clock chimes), you know, white people?
Mrs. Durrett:	I can remember, I can remember, when we had kids go from school fussing, arguing, that type of thing. And I think it was more or less a territorial type situation (Phone rings). I don't think -
Ms. Lawrence:	Pause. (Tape turned off temporarily) Okay, we needed to take a little, a little pause there. Um, you were talking about, I guess, conflict between whites and blacks on your way to school?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. Yeah, probably in the afternoons on your way back from school. Sometimes. Or maybe during, on weekends. I don't remember a black/white situation.
Ms. Lawrence:	Hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	I think it was more or less a territorial. Because if these black kids were walking up, maybe like, up the mountain as we called, and they had to go through like a white neighborhood, if there was somebody from this part was bothering them, you know, they got together. That's why I said, they, they took care of their territory.
Ms. Lawrence:	So, since we can't see on tape what you're doing with your hands here, can you just describe, the blacks were coming up from, from where up there?
Mrs. Durrett:	Coming from Esmont School.
Ms. Lawrence:	From Esmont School -
Mrs. Durrett:	Or maybe from the store.
Ms. Lawrence:	- coming up the hill. Okay, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	And let's say group A, they lived in this area, or they lived in that particular part of Esmont, and the whites also lived in -
Ms. Lawrence:	A?
Mrs. Durrett:	Group A.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay. Uh-huh.
Mrs. Durrett:	Not, not next, some of them were next door neighbors. Okay, let's say there's another area that we'll call part B. Well, if part B and part A look like they were going to have some type of conflict, the whites got together with part A, and they kind of helped each other out.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Now, were these -
Mrs. Durrett:	I don't remember any real knock-down dragout, I'm not going to say it wasn't, I don't remember any.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. When you say it's about territory, would -
Mrs. Durrett:	It's where you lived.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. And would it be mostly boys?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And, when there was conflict, was it one group, say A, passing through B's community or neighborhood? Would it be an issue of, like, who are you guys, these strangers coming into our neighborhood?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, it was, like the crossroad might have been like a dividing point.
Ms. Lawrence:	Route 6 and -
Mrs. Durrett:	Route 6 and Route 627, where Porter's Road is.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. So anything, kind of west of 627, as you go down the hill?
Mrs. Durrett:	As you would go up toward, you would go, I guess that's, Scottsville is what? - I'm getting my directions mixed up.
Ms. Lawrence:	Or Chestnut Grove?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah going toward the Chestnut Grove area maybe. Not the Chestnut Grove people. But going in that direction -
Ms. Lawrence:	On Route 6.
Mrs. Durrett:	- because see, where the post office is, the lower part of Esmont was where the whites lived. So the blacks were going that way, they got to know those whites better maybe than we did. Because we saw them more. Oh but we knew a lot of white families, because everybody knew everybody. But I don't remember a whole lot of real conflict, but just like normal kids would do. And I don't remember it being a racial thing is what I'm trying to say.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah I understand, right. What about the girls, where were they?
Mrs. Durrett:	The girls were probably walking too, but I don't think the girls got involved.
Ms. Lawrence:	All right. Um, and, let's see. I'm kind of asking you these pointed questions because I've interviewed other people and just gotten different, you know, kind of different perspectives. Might have to do with age too, and generations.
Mrs. Durrett:	Okay. Yeah.
Ms. Lawrence:	Um, your, when you went to white stores, were you treated any differently from the white customers?
Mrs. Durrett:	Now where are you asking?
Ms. Lawrence:	Where, which store, I don't know, whichever store.
Mrs. Durrett:	I don't think we had any problems where the whites lived in Esmont. I can't recall any. I can't say that for other parts.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. And when you went to Charlottesville, what was your experience of whites when you were shopping, or just anytime you were in Charlottesville?
Mrs. Durrett:	I don't remember having any problems.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, great.
Mrs. Durrett:	Whatsoever.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	Because I was born, I was raised around whites.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	Not socially I'm saying. But I just, they're just another human being. But I don't remember any friction.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Of course you know, you had, if you went to a theater you'd sit in the back.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Could you discuss that, like, the segregation, the actual logistics of segregation, some experiences of that?
Mrs. Durrett:	Okay, when you went to Scottsville, you sit up in the balcony. You went through a side door.
Ms. Lawrence:	This is a, a movie theatre in Char- in Scottsville?
Mrs. Durrett:	In Scottsville. And there was a restaurant where you walked down an alleyway and they handed you something to eat through a window.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. What was the name of that restaurant?
Mrs. Durrett:	(Shakes head no)
Ms. Lawrence:	No, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	I prefer not to say it. Uh, we went to Charlottesville. You went upstairs in the balcony. Which was actually the better seats.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh.
Mrs. Durrett:	Because you could look down over.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	You'd sit on that floor, I don't remember that floor being elevated. I'm not, I can't remember if it was elevated or not. We didn't do a whole lot of going to the movies. At school, sometime, the principal, maybe once a month, would try to have a movie at night.
Ms. Lawrence:	At Esmont School?
Mrs. Durrett:	At Esmont School?
Ms. Lawrence:	With a projector?
Mrs. Durrett:	With a projector. It would break maybe every half hour, but that's where we saw movies. But going to Charlottesville - personally, I didn't go to that many movies. Because as I said, transportation was a problem.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. And, any other signs of segregation in Charlottesville besides movies and, yeah I guess you've just mentioned the movies in Charlottesville.
Mrs. Durrett:	Movies. I can't remember the restaurants. Because at that time Charlottesville had several black restaurants.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. The Vinegar Hill area?
Mrs. Durrett:	Vinegar Hill, yeah, and the Elks Home. Of course, you could go with a guest to the Elks Home. Their building is still there. But we had, yeah, the Vinegar Hill. And then we had Carver's Inn, if you want my later years. (Phone rings) Oh, dear dear dear. (Tape is paused temporarily)
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Um, the movie, or wait, were we, what were we just discussing?
Mrs. Durrett:	Restaurants was the last thing we talked about, yeah.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh that's right, and Vinegar Hill, and other experiences of segregation. Signs, do you remember any signs?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah, 'colored only,' 'white only,' drinking fountains, the whole gamut.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Okay. Um, did you have field trips other than Field Day to Charlottesville, as a youth?
Mrs. Durrett:	We went to Washington. I don't remember, I don't recall any others. We always went to Washington, probably to the zoo. I don't remember any others.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And, not to Charlottesville for things other than the Field Day?
Mrs. Durrett:	When we would take pictures, like for some of those pictures in that book, we went to a church and stood on their steps and took pictures. You know, at a church there.
Ms. Lawrence:	That you performed at maybe?
Mrs. Durrett:	No no, we just used it for a background.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. But you had, I had forgotten that you went to sing sometimes in Charlottesville, right?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. They were at the black churches.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, okay. Okay, now I would like to talk a little bit more about your actual home life, growing up. And, if you could remind me, your grandparents and your grandmother, um, your paternal grandmother, lived in Esmont as you were growing up? I mean, were they, were they kind of involved in your life?
Mrs. Durrett:	Not my pat - no, neither one of my grandmothers.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, so it was really, but they did live in Esmont, is that right?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah they lived in Esmont but I don't know if I even remember even seeing my father's mother.
Ms. Lawrence:	Hm. But your mother's parents, they just weren't around a lot?
Mrs. Durrett:	My mother, when I was born, my mother was living with, because you see I told you my father died three months before I was born, so she moved back with her father, and I lived there and I think I was seven years old when he died. And that's when we moved back to where my mother worked. I had a stepgrandmother that I vaguely remember. And I think she died like a couple years before my grandfather. I vaguely remember her.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay. So that's on your mother's side.
Mrs. Durrett:	That's on my mother's side.
Ms. Lawrence:	And then your father's parents just weren't very in the picture?
Mrs. Durrett:	No because I, I think they were deceased.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay. Uh, now, if you don't mind, talk a little bit about in the home that you lived in, uh, could you talk about the chores that you did, as a little girl? Either I guess to help your mother maybe.
Mrs. Durrett:	I remember my grandfather used to send me to the kitchen. And with his wife, my stepgrandmother, to get two cups and two saucers, for coffee. And he had a big fireplace in the bedroom, that's where that coffeepot was, in that fireplace. I would come back with three cups. So I remember my grandfather letting me drink coffee.
Ms. Lawrence:	(Chuckle) Wow.
Mrs. Durrett:	And my other cousin used to say, 'Don't bother Gene, because Grandpa would get you.' [Gene referring to nickname given to Eugenia]
Ms. Lawrence:	'Don't bother' - ohh!
Mrs. Durrett:	'Don't bother Gene,' that's what everybody called me, 'don't bother Gene because Grandpa would get you.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Well.
Mrs. Durrett:	And, in the summertime, we called that the big house. My mother was one of sixteen children. And our cousins in the city, as soon as the school closed, would come to Grandpa. And I remember those fond, good memories, and we remained close, those of us who are still alive. Close. And of course, I think he died when I was seven, so one of them chores for me to do, when I went to where my mother worked, part of my chores was to wash the pots and pans. And my mother never felt like she had cooked enough until every pot and pan in the house was dirty.
Ms. Lawrence:	Ah. (Chuckle)
Mrs. Durrett:	That's the way it seemed. And as I got older, if you look around my house, I don't have any linen, or silver. Because part of my job was to iron those big linen napkins and a big linen tablecloth, if you got a wrinkle you wet it and ironed it over.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	I had to polish silver, brass, and when I built my home my mother wanted to get me a nice set of silver, I said stainless steel would do' -
Ms. Lawrence:	(Chuckle)
Mrs. Durrett:	And as I got a little bit older I would help her, the lady would have like a little luncheon, the ladies would play cards, and they'd have a luncheon. And I would help my mother serve the luncheon. And one day, they were telling a joke, and I'm starting about laughing, at the joke (Chuckle), my mother said, 'You not supposed to be part of that.' (Chuckle) But, I never cooked much. I can cook, don't like cooking. Love to eat but I don't like cooking. Because my mother always did the cooking.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	And then, after my momma, I got married, and my mother remarried, after I got married -
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	And then she left living on that place and they bought a home of their own. And of course, I missed and I would go back and visit with her, and, my mother loved cooking, but as a child, those were more so my chores, just washing the dishes, and helping my mother in the house. And as I got larger I would help her make up the beds, if the maid had coffee or something like that.
Ms. Lawrence:	When would you do all this? After school obviously.
Mrs. Durrett:	Oh yeah after school. Like on Saturdays.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, okay. So not everyday?
Mrs. Durrett:	I washed those pots and pans everyday, after school.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, yeah, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	See she, when she fixed dinner.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, right.
Mrs. Durrett:	It was my job to do that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Um, I don't know if you want to talk about this, but, how did you get along with the white family, and were there brothers and sisters?
Mrs. Durrett:	It was only one lady.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh just one lady.
Mrs. Durrett:	One lady and she had family people to come in, to visit her. And they did accept us, I guess as part of their family.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	Because my mother took good care of her.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Ms. Lawrence:	And when my youngest child had, was visiting - my mother and I came back and visited - I came back to visit with my mother - and she gave a birthday party in that dining room for one of my children, and he could invite his friends.
Ms. Lawrence:	Aw. That's nice.
Mrs. Durrett:	And we always had company. We always had company. My mother was known to be a good cook. And the lady didn't mind my mother feeding people. You know, she was not one of those type of people.
Ms. Lawrence:	What type of people?
Mrs. Durrett:	I said my mother would, people would come to visit and she would just cook and feed, you know sometime you work for folks who, they didn't want you to feed other people other than your immediate family -
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh.
Mrs. Durrett:	- but this particular lady didn't, she didn't care who my mother fed.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. So she was generous with her -
Mrs. Durrett:	She was very generous.
Ms. Lawrence:	And where did you live, in the house?
Mrs. Durrett:	We had a cottage on the place.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh, nice. Okay. Separate from the house?
Mrs. Durrett:	Separate from the house. Right there in the yard.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm. Um, I was going to ask you something... Oh, your grandfather's house, where was it in Esmont? Do you remember?
Mrs. Durrett:	When you come in, when you leave [Route] 20, and on out, I guess the [Route] 715, and when you get to Keene and you come on around, it's a little bit before you get to that crossroad where you turn, if you go straight, the Van Cliefs is on -
Ms. Lawrence:	On the right.
Mrs. Durrett:	- on the right. Before you get around that curve, you can't see, you see where it's got brick pillars there.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	That's where my mother was born and raised. And that's where I lived with my grandfather.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	That place was just sold, not too many years ago.
Ms. Lawrence:	So the house with the brick pillars. Okay. How many -
Mrs. Durrett:	The man who owns that now put those brick pillars up there. I think it's rock. I don't believe it's brick.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	But you know that curve is so curvy, you can't take too much time to look.
Ms. Lawrence:	(Chuckle) Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	And it's all grown up now. But see that was all clear land.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. And, I'm thinking of sixteen children. So, how many rooms were in that house?
Mrs. Durrett:	There were three big bedrooms upstairs, a living room, a dining room, a bedroom downstairs, a kitchen, back porch, front porch, big yard. But as my mother and brothers got older, and some of her sisters, you know, they moved, they left and went north.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh of course, right, right. Okay. All right. And could you discuss a little bit, um, how your mother disciplined you. You talked about your teachers, but -
Mrs. Durrett:	My mother was very, yeah, she was loving and warm, she was my mother, she was my friend, but she made me walk the line. She used to say, 'I birthed you, I have to love you. I'm going to try to raise you so that other people might like you.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Wow. That makes a lot of sense.
Mrs. Durrett:	I tell people, 'I had the college degree, but my mother had the wisdom and the common sense.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	And, when she would call me 'Eugenia', whatever I needed to do it was done right away. And I didn't like her getting upset with me so I tried - I'm not saying I was a perfect child - but if she kept telling me what not to do, then I made up in my mind I'd rather I didn't suffer the consequences. I would do what she said to do. And when I went away to college she told me, 'I'm doing this type of work because I can't do any better. I'm going to try to provide a better life for you. But you cannot go into college, and be the best dressed.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	And I knew all that from day one.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	And it was always instilled in me that I would go away to school.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, meaning college.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. And that was instilled in me. So whenever I got upset with a professor in college, I had a flashback to that sink full of pots and pans. I said, 'No, this is not what I want to do, so I'd gonna go and do what this professor wants me to do so I can get out of here.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	But, she was strict. And I had to spend a lot of time with my aunts, and they were, they made me behave also. Not just me, all of us had to behave.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm, yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	Most of them had the same rules.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	You know, to go by. And one thing was to eat everything on your plate. Don't take any more than you think you can eat, you can always go back for more. But you can't waste food. And, looking back now, they were good times. I don't want to go back to some of those inconveniences that we had. Because when I visited with my aunts and all, I had to go to the spring to get water.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Which was not the case in your house?
Mrs. Durrett:	Not the case in the house.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	Believe me, I knew the difference.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, yeah.
	(end of part 1)
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, I was just asking if, um, the fact that you grew up with conveniences, pretty linens, silverware, etc., your relatives and your family, I mean your friends, did not have these luxuries, um, I don't, did it create any tension?
Mrs. Durrett:	No.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. It was just understood -
Mrs. Durrett:	Because I visited in those homes all the time. They visited with me. And I spent a lot of time with two of my aunts. So there was never anything, and see, when those people come visit me my mother fed everybody.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	So, um, and they knew I was an only child and they sort of like, looked after me. But, and I never had an attitude with them.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm, mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	I have a friend now who, at the last school reunion, told the people that I was one of the best friends she had. Because she was one of eleven children, and her mother worked out of the home, and they had to go home and a lot of times, depending upon their older sister. I always would have breakfast, I always brought lunch, and she knew I was going to have a meal waiting for me when I went back home. Not necessarily so in her situation, but she said that my mother always packed food for them too.
Ms. Lawrence:	Ooh, you mean when you went off to school?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, when I was going to Esmont High School.
Ms. Lawrence:	Your mom would pack food for them too?
Mrs. Durrett:	For them too.
Ms. Lawrence:	Wow, so you brought your friends' lunch.
Mrs. Durrett:	I brought food, and she said I always, you know, shared. And she's never forgotten that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Ooh, that's great.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah we're still good friends. She lives in New Jersey but we're still good friends.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	So, I, no, it was never any difference like that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm. Would you do all that entertaining in your little cottage or in Mrs. I forget her name -
Mrs. Durrett:	Lloyd, L.L.O.Y.D.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mrs. Lloyd. Uh-huh, or in Mrs. Lloyd's home?
Mrs. Durrett:	It depended upon, I could do it, a lot of times, we had a huge kitchen and a huge back porch and a huge yard .
Ms. Lawrence:	In your cottage or her house?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, no, no, in the main house.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay main house.
Mrs. Durrett:	So we used all of that, and then I would go, like, into the cottage part. But if she would not, a lot of, sometimes she would go away for the winter, and we were there running the house, and we just, yeah, entertained there.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh, uh-huh. So she allowed you to do that and it was fine?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, that's great. Did she have other people working there?
Mrs. Durrett:	She usually had a young man, a young fellow to work there. And he would like, be the waiter, he would wait the tables at night. And do the yard work, and maybe have a garden. And it was more or less, you know, young, teenage boys, you know. And then of course, she would have, um, yeah, that was about it. Because, when she moved out of her big house she had more people in the big house, after her husband died she moved to what was known as the cottage.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	She moved to a smaller house.
Ms. Lawrence:	Not your cottage?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, no, no. That house down there. It had a cottage to it. But she moved out of a huge house, a larger house.
Ms. Lawrence:	So the, but you worked, your mother worked in the larger house?
Mrs. Durrett:	Both of the houses.
Ms. Lawrence:	Both of the houses, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Both of the houses, yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	I'm with ya', yeah. All right, let me just remind myself of some other questions. Um, oh, could you talk about health care, what you did for health care as a youngster?
Mrs. Durrett:	There was a doctor in Scottsville.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh. What was his name?
Mrs. Durrett:	Dr. Harris.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Was he white?
Mrs. Durrett:	White. That we would go to.
Ms. Lawrence:	You would go there?
Mrs. Durrett:	Go to him, if need be. Or he would come, back, in those days they did home visitation. But we had some people in our community that were just born nurses.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm, really?
Mrs. Durrett:	And they took care of everybody in the community.
Ms. Lawrence:	Could you name some of those people?
Mrs. Durrett:	Mrs. Katherine Johnson, Mrs. Maggie Paige, Mrs. Martha Bruce. Mrs. Katherine Johnson and Mrs. Martha Bruce were sisters.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Mrs. Maggie Paige was my aunt. And they were just born nurses. Whenever there was pneumonia or anything, they would come and they would sit in your home, they would stay the whole night if need be.
Ms. Lawrence:	Wow.
Mrs. Durrett:	Then we had midwives. Uh, Mrs. Fannie Ford Johnson was a midwife. I believe that was the only midwife that I, that I remember. I remember hearing my mother talk about it because see by the time I came along the babies were born, yeah some of them were born at home though. But - I was born at home. But this Dr. Harris delivered me.
Ms. Lawrence:	He delivered you?
Mrs. Durrett:	He delivered me. And my mother had decided to name me Lucille. And when I was born my father's name was Eugene. And when I was born she said the doctor said 'She looks so much like her father, I'm naming her Eugenia.'
Ms. Lawrence:	(Chuckle) Well what'd your mother think of that?
Mrs. Durrett:	She went along and agreed to it.
Ms. Lawrence:	She did not?
Mrs. Durrett:	She did. She went along with it.
Ms. Lawrence:	She did. Right. Yeah. So she liked it.
Mrs. Durrett:	So um, but we didn't have, we didn't do a whole lot of going to the doctor. Oh there was one down in the lower part of Esmont where the whites lived. Dr. Early.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	He would come into the home. Dr. Early.
Ms. Lawrence:	But mostly, you would rely on the, the, these women?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. And these grandmothers and these aunts and things, they knew those home remedies.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Could you describe some of them? That you might remember?
Mrs. Durrett:	Well I know you heat wine, to break up a cold. And then put something called mustard plaster on your chest, and then put wool, a wool, a flannel material on you, and you laid in the bed and you sweat. And that broke that cold. You took it for a chest cold.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	Castor oil. I think they gave us that for everything. 'Black Draught', that was like for, I don't know if that was for constipation or diarrhea.
Ms. Lawrence:	D.R.A.U.G.H.T.? Is that correct?
Mrs. Durrett:	Mm-hm, mm-hm. But it was always someone you could call to find out, you know, what to do.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. What about herbs?
Mrs. Durrett:	Now I remember my mother talking about, um, I don't think it's sassafras. I can't think of the name. Some kind of bag, that they would go into the woods and get some herb and tie this bag around - I can't remember, I can't think of the name, but, I understand it did not have a good scent.
Ms. Lawrence:	I heard of sassafras root tea.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. And then there was - yes. Because I think when I lived in Crozet, somewhere on the place, a lady used to always come there and then go in the woods and get some of that. But they just made their own. And that information just passed down from generation to generation.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. You said they went in the woods. Would people also -
Mrs. Durrett:	To pick up some kind of root or something.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, right. Would people also cultivate things in gardens?
Mrs. Durrett:	They probably did. They probably did.
Ms. Lawrence:	Did your mother know any of that stuff?
Mrs. Durrett:	No.
Ms. Lawrence:	No. So you always had someone -
Mrs. Durrett:	Somebody else. Because she said as a child, she had to wear that bag around her.
Ms. Lawrence:	(Chuckle) I wonder what that smelly stuff was. Huh.
Mrs. Durrett:	Can't think of it.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Um, now did you, you said you were aware of midwives and your mother told you about at least one of them. But as a child, I mean, did you, were you told about pregnancy, and what that all meant?
Mrs. Durrett:	No. Um, of course, you know, my mother gave me 'The Talk.' But I don't think that even was discussed in school. I guess when those ladies were telling us to always be ladylike, I think that was their way of telling us how to conduct and carry ourselves. Now that I think back.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. But they didn't use, they probably didn't use explicit language.
Mrs. Durrett:	No they didn't.
Ms. Lawrence:	Just kind of, do you -
Mrs. Durrett:	I remember though, when girls got pregnant, those ladies would always tell the girls how to take care of the babies. And the girls I think that, probably the few that got pregnant maybe out of wedlock back in those days, I guess they felt, maybe, uncomfortable. But the older ladies -
Ms. Lawrence:	Who felt uncomfortable?
Mrs. Durrett:	I think the girls - let's say, if I was a teenager and got pregnant - we didn't have a lot of that, but I'm sure the girls probably felt sorry and bad about it.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	But the older ladies didn't let you talk about them.
Ms. Lawrence:	They let you talk about them.
Mrs. Durrett:	They would not.
Ms. Lawrence:	Would not, I'm sorry, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	They didn't let you talk. They would tell you, you know, take care of yourself and the child.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. So, and don't talk about these other girls. So, don't gossip basically?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. That's true. Because I, there was a very few of them that got pregnant. That I know of. Now I've heard like some of the girls in Charlottesville maybe what they would call, that got pregnant, and they would call that the back-alley, what did they call that, abortion. Because they would go to somebody and do something. They said a lot of those girls did not get the proper attention, and maybe some of them died.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. That was in Charlottesville?
Mrs. Durrett:	Probably in Charlottesville. I heard about that there. I didn't hear about it in Esmont. If it did, see people didn't discuss that stuff around kids then.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, yeah. But of course -
Mrs. Durrett:	Then a lot of times when girls got pregnant, I guess maybe during, between my years and my mother's age, they were always sent away somewhere.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	With a relative or something.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, right.
Mrs. Durrett:	I've heard of that. I can't, I can't name any particular ones right now. I wouldn't if I could. But I remember hearing that. So-and-so. And people didn't, they didn't talk about that stuff around kids then. And we were not allowed to sit there, when the adults were talking, we were not allowed to sit there and listen. We were outside playing.
Ms. Lawrence:	Or sent outside.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	But then, here you are in high school and all of a sudden, someone disappears, and isn't back to school in the Fall.
Mrs. Durrett:	Oh we heard, we heard about that. But it just wasn't discussed.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm. Except in that kind of subtle way that you were talking about.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. Mm-hm.
Ms. Lawrence:	And, so they didn't mention, you, they did not mention birth control certainly, these women?
Mrs. Durrett:	Oh no indeed. No, because these women, many I'm sure, they didn't have birth control themselves.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	But, because you know, people had big families back then.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. But your mother gave you 'The Talk.'
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	And, how old were you? Do you remember?
Mrs. Durrett:	Probably when I started my period.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Mrs. Durrett:	I think I was around 13.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. So she told you how babies were made.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	And did she tell you anything about, um -
Mrs. Durrett:	She told me if I ever got pregnant, that, what did she say? I don't know if she said anything, but I know when I got, after I got married and was pregnant with my first child, I used to have cramps terribly, and after I had my first child, I never had any more cramps. And I remember telling her one time, when she came to visit me, I said, 'If I had known this, I'd have had a baby a long time ago'.
Ms. Lawrence:	(Laughter)
Mrs. Durrett:	And she said, 'Where were you all going?' I said, 'Home with you.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh. What'd she think of that?
Mrs. Durrett:	She just smiled. But I was already married then, but, (Chuckle) we knew. I'm trying to think if I had teachers, I don't remember teachers saying anything. I don't remember.
Ms. Lawrence:	I think it's, I think that came later.
Mrs. Durrett:	That was later.
Ms. Lawrence:	Um, did your mom say anything about birth control, other than, 'Just don't do it'?
Mrs. Durrett:	That's all she said.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, okay. And if you did get in trouble, did she tell you anything?
Mrs. Durrett:	She always said, 'Whatever trouble you get into, you come to me first.' And I didn't want to face her.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah. Who would?
	(General chuckle)
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. Um, so at sixteen you went to college, where'd you go to college?
Mrs. Durrett:	Virginia Union.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh right! I can't believe I -
Mrs. Durrett:	I went to Virginia Union. I just happen to have this on.
Ms. Lawrence:	I know, I, what am I thinking, I didn't notice that, yes.
Mrs. Durrett:	I just happen to have it on.
Ms. Lawrence:	For the record, she has a sweatshirt on that says 'Virginia Union University'! Okay, at sixteen, and did you go there for four years?
Mrs. Durrett:	Four years.
Ms. Lawrence:	What did you major in?
Mrs. Durrett:	Elementary education.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And, then, you moved back to Esmont?
Mrs. Durrett:	Right after I graduated I got married.
Ms. Lawrence:	And what's your, what was your husband's name at the time?
Mrs. Durrett:	Milton Harris.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	And I lived in Richmond. Had two children.
Ms. Lawrence:	And their names? Just, for the record.
Mrs. Durrett:	Ronald Harris and Michael Harris. The marriage did not work out. I came back to Esmont. My first year of teaching I taught at Jefferson School, that you hear so much talk about. That was my first year of teaching. I taught that one year, and I got pregnant with my second child. Then when I came back, I came back to Esmont. (Phone rings) And I lived with an aunt. I had two children, nowhere to go and no job. Because at that time my mother and her present husband were still living on the place where the lady, you know, was. And I lived with an aunt. A house in the community went up for sale for taxes and my mother and stepfather bought it and put me in it. The principal was the same principal that I graduated under, in Esmont.
Ms. Lawrence:	Faulkner?
Mrs. Durrett:	Faulkner. Except it was an elementary school then. And he was so happy that I was there. Not the reason that I was there. But he said sometimes it's hard to get substitutes out, to come out that distance. Didn't have a telephone at first. And he would stop by on his way to school that morning. And this house was right below our church. He would stop in and he would say, 'Eugenia, I'm going to come back and pick you up. I need you to sub today.' I would send my kids across the road to Mrs. Robinson and he would come back and pick me up and I substituted. Well the same supervisor, as when I was a student -
Ms. Lawrence:	Faulkner?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, no, supervisor. Faulkner was the principal.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh so supervisor of the county?
Mrs. Durrett:	Elementary supervisor of the county. She came in and she talked me. And evidently when she came into the classroom, she must have been impressed because she said, 'Would you like to have a job?', I said, 'Yes I would.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Yay.
Mrs. Durrett:	So I went to New York that summer, and my mother called me, she said, 'Your contract is here', I said, 'I'm coming home tomorrow.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh. Why'd you go to New York?
Mrs. Durrett:	I had plenty of relatives up there. And they always took me and my kids. My family was very good to me. And I would go up there and spend the summer, like two or three weeks. And, because I had all these aunts and uncles. But I came back and I got a job teaching the very next year. I subbed one year and then I got a job regular the next year.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. Um, Mrs. Robinson was basically the caretaker for your children when you were, during the day?
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes she lived right across the road from me.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. And your kids were pretty young at the time, when you first started?
Mrs. Durrett:	The year that I got the job, yes she kept both of them, she kept both children. But when Yancey School was built in 1960, that's when my oldest son when to school in 1960 -
Ms. Lawrence:	His first year, at that school?
Mrs. Durrett:	His first year of school. And then Mrs. Robinson kept the youngest child.
Ms. Lawrence:	All right. I'm trying to think if I missed any big um, well you know what I didn't quite, I didn't quite ask you, um, we talked about Field Day in Charlottesville, and some of your activities as a youngster in Esmont, but any other commun - and you talked about church plays, any other community-wide activities in Esmont, or, or, things related to the community, that you can think of?
Mrs. Durrett:	Back in those days, they had something called 'lawn parties.'
Ms. Lawrence:	Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	And that was where the community would come together, play games, socialize, and the kids, oh it was just a good time. You brought food, there was plenty of good food, you brought the food. And we were talking not too long ago, the Swans, S.W.A.N., I told you it was something like the unofficial taxi driver.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yes.
Mrs. Durrett:	They had something that looked something like Jack 'o Lantern lamps, and I don't know how they lit those things but they were hanging around, they would put them up for decoration.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh.
Mrs. Durrett:	And I don't know to this day how they did that. It was some kind of light inside.
Ms. Lawrence:	They weren't actual pumpkins though?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, it looked like it was some kind of paper type thing.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well you know they have those now. They manufacture them now. Out of plastic.
Mrs. Durrett:	I know they do but I don't know how they did that back then!
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah back then. That's cool. Hm. Sounds very festive looking.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. Yes. And we would have that type of thing maybe two or three times a year.
Ms. Lawrence:	So those extended into the evening.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes. Everything, as I said, had to be done at night.
Ms. Lawrence:	That's right. I keep forgetting.
Mrs. Durrett:	Because Sunday was spent in church. Saturday you're doing your chores and things, getting your house straight, getting your clothes ready for church and things like that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah, okay. Uh, were these lawn parties given by anybody in the community?
Mrs. Durrett:	Anybody could give them but it looked like, it just happened with certain, with certain families.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm. I have heard about these before and there was some discussion of paying some money to attend them, or the food, is that -
Mrs. Durrett:	I think we bought the food. I don't remember paying any money to go there. My mother would have done that but I don't remember that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. But you brought food with you?
Mrs. Durrett:	They provided food.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh they provided food, okay. Um, and, speaking of money -
Mrs. Durrett:	But sometimes people would give those things for churches too. You would have, like, lawn parties and things for church, fundraisers.
Ms. Lawrence:	That's right. Okay, okay, that makes sense.
Mrs. Durrett:	And we, people would donate the food and you would go back and -
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	- and buy, but then toward the later years, after we got more modern, it was just cheaper just to go ahead and just make a donation. Because a lot of time I would go buy chicken fried in by the back. But back in those days when you didn't have the convenience of a car going to a store, the people would go in the yard and kill a chicken and what have you.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	So I, you know, I saw that change.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm, that's interesting. Um, in church, in terms of the church and fundraising and finances, I know that sometimes people who were in need, in crisis for some reason, were helped out by the church financially.
Mrs. Durrett:	Church, yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Um, do you know how that process happened?
Mrs. Durrett:	We always had a Missionary Club, Missionary Ministry now. And that money was to help the people in need. Not necessarily your church member.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	Any family that needed help. And then the community people would get together and help families. That goes until today.
Ms. Lawrence:	So that was separate from the church?
Mrs. Durrett:	No, no, no. Yeah. Sometimes families, people in the community, if they knew of a certain situation, they would help. But churches have always helped.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right. Right.
Mrs. Durrett:	And that's why we had these fundraisers, more or less to try to help the Missionary Treasury.
Ms. Lawrence:	Who would decide which families got how much, in terms of what they needed?
Mrs. Durrett:	It depended upon their need, depended upon the situation. Nowadays, you got to be very careful because everybody, they say they're in need, they're not in need. And I think now, if I ever said I needed, my lights have been turned off, and I needed some money to turn my lights on, I think now, you have to present the bill.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm, but back then?
Mrs. Durrett:	Back then you just gave them the money. And people didn't abuse that back then. You got to be real, you got to be very careful now.
Ms. Lawrence:	Back then, was it fairly open, how, who, you know -
Mrs. Durrett:	It was never talked about too much. It was done like with the Executive Committee.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	They might not have used the word 'Executive,' the Officers. Um, Mrs. So-and-so is having problems. And like we had those big families and pneumonia was I know was raging around at one time, or influenza. The people just got together and gave you what they needed.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, mm-hm, yeah. During that time was there any, aside from the doctors in the community and the community healers, did you have any visiting nurses?
Mrs. Durrett:	Later years. Later years the health department. They would come to the school, and then they would come through the community.
Ms. Lawrence:	That was when you were a teacher? Or even when you were a student?
Mrs. Durrett:	Probably after I got to high school I believe.
Ms. Lawrence:	So they would, would they run clinics through the school?
Mrs. Durrett:	I know when I taught there we did. Yes, they, we, oh, let me back up. They had clinics at that Odd Fellows Hall. Ms. Southall was our nurse.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay. Was she white or black?
Mrs. Durrett:	White.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	White. And they would come and like give shots and things. They had clinics at the Odd Fellows Hall.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh, uh-huh. Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	See that was the meeting, that was the town hall.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah clearly. Everything happened there. How often were those clinics?
Mrs. Durrett:	That I can't remember.
Ms. Lawrence:	But -
Mrs. Durrett:	Probably gave it like when kids needed vaccinations for going to school. I'm guessing.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, okay. All right. Uh, you were, back in, let's see, oh no, World War II. Before we went on tape you were discussing a little bit about World War II and the war, how that affected um, the community. Could you just discuss that a teeny bit?
Mrs. Durrett:	(Soft voice) We had a lot of men to go to war. I had an aunt with five sons. One got killed. There was another lady with five sons, one of her sons got killed. We had three from our church that was killed. The church built a monument for them. When the war was raging, they would have all-night prayer meetings. And everybody, in each household, everybody that had somebody in the service, there was a flag in the window. And the community just came together and supported each other. But it was a terrible time. But then on the other hand, I remember us still going up to Mrs. Thomas's store, trying to have some fun. Because it didn't, when someone died or something, you know, you felt bad about that, but we were not as aware, because, I must have been maybe twelve or thirteen. So I didn't really feel the impact. We knew what was going on. And there was rations. You had to have, my mother she only had me so she only like got one book of coupons, for shoes I think. But then she had another friend of hers who had a large family. And she would, my mother had helped her, so she would give my mother, like if I needed more shoes or something, she'll give me a coupon. I can remember, that's why I make gingerbread now, they made gingerbread with a sauce. Because back in those days, I don't care how poor you were, you always had to have dessert.
Ms. Lawrence:	Hm.
Mrs. Durrett:	And I can see now, sugar was rationed. And I can see a cup of ice cream now with a half a cup of ice cream, half sherbet. Because they had to cut that and everything, and I think sugar was on ration.
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-huh. And sherbet didn't have sugar?
Mrs. Durrett:	Sherbet must didn't have the sugar.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh okay, uh-huh.
Mrs. Durrett:	I know sugar was on ration, shoes. Can't remember, gasoline, I'm sure gasoline was on ration. That's what I can remember.
Ms. Lawrence:	Can you describe the chewing gum wrapper thing that you were talking about earlier.
	(Mrs. Durrett goes to find a piece of chewing gum in its wrapper)
Mrs. Durrett:	I'm trying to see if I have a piece of gum. Inside the pack -
Ms. Lawrence:	Of gum.
Mrs. Durrett:	Of gum. See that, see that paper right there?
Ms. Lawrence:	Yes, yes.
Mrs. Durrett:	That silver? That's what was peeled off.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, so you peeled off that -
Mrs. Durrett:	And you made a ball.
Ms. Lawrence:	Right, and so the tin, tinfoil.
Mrs. Durrett:	And then, the tinfoil. Where else did I say we got that from?
Ms. Lawrence:	Cigarette packs.
Mrs. Durrett:	Cigarette packs. And you just take that all.
Ms. Lawrence:	And roll it into a ball. And the kids would do this mostly?
Mrs. Durrett:	Kids would do that. We did it as a school project.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm, okay. For recycling.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Do I have time for one more quick question?
Mrs. Durrett:	One more quick question. God I hope he won't, he's going to probably wait for me.
Ms. Lawrence:	Um, I was just remembering your parents, and there was a twenty five year gap. Can you tell me how your parents met? Just seems like such an interesting, a large age difference.
Mrs. Durrett:	I guess because when he came back here from New York, he came with the Van Cliefs, a very rich family, and he was a horseman. You know the Van Cliefs raised racehorses and that type thing. And my mother was right across the hill from them. And they probably met that way.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, okay. So he's this -
Mrs. Durrett:	Yeah, because you see when these would enter - parties and stuff like that, the help sometimes would be, you know, involved also.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh right. Okay.
Mrs. Durrett:	So that's probably how they met. He was supposed to have been a very handsome man, and just stole my mom's heart.
Ms. Lawrence:	(Laughter) That's a good story.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes, yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay. All right, is there any little, you know, event from your childhood that you remember, or something I just need to know about the community. Some particular location where, you know, a fire happened, or just something, of note, that I should have for the record.
Mrs. Durrett:	Well, I remember at one of these lawn parties. We were having such a good time, then someone came and said the Johnson's house was on fire. And everybody left, they went down, and that house had burned completely down. That's near the crossroads. If you go, like if you go on down below the church, going toward the school, there's Route 6 crosses down there, it was in that area.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh.
Mrs. Durrett:	And they were relatives of mine. That was a very sad thing.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh that's terrible.
Mrs. Durrett:	Yes.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh dear.
Mrs. Durrett:	But most, I have very good, happy memories.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yes. Sounds like it.
Mrs. Durrett:	From a closeknit community. And when I separated and came back, my family and friends were extraordinarily nice to me, good to me. And you know, I have not forgotten that. I in turn try to be good to them. And in whatever way I can.
Ms. Lawrence:	I'm sure you are. Well thank you so much.
Mrs. Durrett:	All right.
Ms. Lawrence:	For spending the time with us.
Mrs. Durrett:	Okay. All right then.
Ms. Lawrence:	Okay, I'm going to turn it off now!
Mrs. Durrett:	Okay.
	(End of interview)
Copyright Information: Virginia Center for Digital History, University of Virginia This interview is publically accessible Text and images © copyright 2001 by the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia.

Interview of Mrs. Eugenia Durrett on August 30, 2002, by Sarah Lawrence of the Race and Place Project. (Oral History)