VUS.13a.7

Interview with Miss Gladys Austin (1995)
(University of Southern Mississippi: Civil Rights in Mississippi Digital Archive)

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Description

This resource is a transcribed interview with an African American school teacher who has lived in Mississippi all her life. She taught high school science classes for forty years, in both segregated and then integrated schools. Her experiences as a teacher and a member of the NAACP offer students insights into life in segregated Mississippi as well as the struggle to overcome segregation. Her comments regarding the current state of integrated education are candid and somewhat unexpected, and could serve as a useful starting point for a frank discussion of these issues.

Teaching Tips

"Do Now" Suggestions

1. The following is an excerpt from the interview, which might be especially interesting to compare to the Brown v. Board of Education opinion: (The teacher must provide students with background information on Miss Austin, including the knowledge that Oak Park was a segregated school, while Watkins was integrated.)

   "Adams: That's right. So, do you feel that blacks gained as a result of integration?

   Austin: I know they lost. If they didn't lose anything but their pride. The black students at Watkins [are nowhere] near with the race pride, educational pride, [and] civic pride, as they were at Oak Park.

   Adams: That's exactly right and that's what I want you to talk about. I was interviewing someone who attended school in Hattiesburg. I think it was Rowan, and she started teaching. And she felt exactly the way you felt. She said, because no longer could a black person be the queen of the school or a part of the court, you know, be part of the homecoming court.

   Austin: But the thing of it is, whites cannot relate to and they are insensitive to, the needs of black people. I know it's the children, but it's because of the not-caring attitude of the adults. I think that's what it is. And the children, the students, are not relating at all."

   The students can compare and contrast (in a journal entry or think/pair/share) the previous excerpt to the following section of the Brown v. Board of Education opinion:

   "We come then to the question presented: Does segregation of children in public schools solely on the basis of race, even though the physical facilities and other "tangible" factors may be equal, deprive the children of the minority group of equal educational opportunities? We believe that it does.

   In Sweatt v. Painter, supra, in finding that a segregated law school for Negroes could not provide them equal educational opportunities, this Court relied in large part on "those qualities which are incapable of objective measurement but which make for greatness in a law school." In McLaurin v. Oklahoma State Regents, supra, the Court, in requiring that a Negro admitted to a white graduate school be treated like all other students, again resorted to intangible considerations: ". . . his ability to study, to engage in discussions and exchange views with other students, and, in general, to learn his profession." [p*494] Such considerations apply with added force to children in grade and high schools. To separate them from others of similar age and qualifications solely because of their race generates a feeling of inferiority as to their status in the community that may affect their hearts and minds in a way unlikely ever to be undone. The effect of this separation on their educational opportunities was well stated by a finding in the Kansas case by a court which nevertheless felt compelled to rule against the Negro plaintiffs:

   Segregation of white and colored children in public schools has a detrimental effect upon the colored children. The impact is greater when it has the sanction of the law, for the policy of separating the races is usually interpreted as denoting the inferiority of the negro group. A sense of inferiority affects the motivation of a child to learn. Segregation with the sanction of law, therefore, has a tendency to [retard] the educational and mental development of negro children and to deprive them of some of the benefits they would receive in a racial[ly] integrated school system. [n10]"

Suggestions for Using this Resource as Part of a Lesson

1. Because Miss Austin not only describes her experiences during the Civil Rights Movement, but also more recent issues of race in American society, this interview is particularly relevant to today's students. The teacher can ask students to read the transcript of the interview and to choose a subject addressed to respond to in a letter to Miss Austin. The subjects students select might vary widely, but it is important that they write about an issue to which they can relate.