Race & Place: Oral Histories

Interview of William M. Rush on April 25, 2002, by Mieka Brand of the Race and Place Project. (Oral History)
Biographical Information William Rush, who was born and raised in Esmont, shares his experiences from early childhood, when he was forced to quit school and work on a farm in order to help support his family, through early adulthood, when he saved up money from his railroad job to buy a two-toned Packard in an effort to gain the attention of his future wife (Louise Rush), and into adult life, as he had children and worked for the Virginia Department of Transportation. Mr. Rush shares his experiences of life in a rural community during Jim Crow, highlighting the long-term damaging consequences of racial segregation, but also describing a level of familiarity between rural African Americans and White Americans living in "the country," a familiarity aided by their remoteness from prying governmental eyes. Project Description Race and Place is a project of the Virginia Center for Digital History and the Carter G. Woodson Institute for Afro-American and African Studies. The goal of the project is to chronicle the life of African-Americans in the Charlottesville, Virginia area during the period of segregation. As part of this project we have conducted a series of interviews with current residents of the Charlottesville area who were alive during that period. The project has also incorporated oral interviews conducted by other Charlottesville institutions which cover the appropriate subject area. Notes About Our Transcription The transcripts represent what was said in the interview to the best of our ability. It is possible that some words, particularly names, have been misspelled. Where we did not feel sure of spellings we have indicated this by the use of the term 'phonetically' in parentheses following the word in question. Places where words were unclear are noted by 'inaudible'. Brackets have been used to indicate additions made to the text upon review by the interviewee. We have made no attempt to correct mistakes in grammar.

Ms. Brand:	April 25, 2002. Interview with Mr. William Rush in Esmont, Virginia, 8105 Chestnut Grove Road. Interviewer Mieka Brand. Alright, so it's on... (pause for microphone readjustment) So I know your name is William Rush.
Mr. Rush:	William M. Rush
Ms. Brand:	William M. Rush. What does 'M' stand for?
Mr. Rush:	Matthew field
Ms. Brand:	Matthew... Field?
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	Rush. Is that... I'm sure I spelled it wrong...
Mr. Rush:	That's ok. Nobody knows how to spell it right no way. (laughs) Don't ask me how to spell it-I don't know how to spell it myself!
Ms. Brand:	Where did you get that one from?
Mr. Rush:	My daddy gave it to me. He was here for, he came here with me when I was born and named me Matthewfield, so it's all I know...
Ms. Brand:	Was that his name, too?
Mr. Rush:	No, his name was James N. Rush.
Ms. Brand:	And where were you born?
Mr. Rush:	I was born right down in this field down here, about 1,000 yards from here. An old house sat right down there. That's where I was born at.
Ms. Brand:	In the field, you said?
Mr. Rush:	Down in the field, in an old-it was a house there. It was a house just right down where the field, right down there.
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh.
Mr. Rush:	And right down there, probably about 500 yards from here. And the highway used to come right through by here where my house is now. It used to come right through by here. That was the WPA road.
Ms. Brand:	The WPA road?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok! So you were born at home?
Mr. Rush:	I was born at home, mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	You know who birthed you?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Who was it?
Mr. Rush:	Lady's name was, uh... Berta Bird.
Ms. Brand:	Berta
Mr. Rush:	Bird.
Ms. Brand:	Bird. Was she from around here?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, she used to live right across here, she was a midwife.
Ms. Brand:	She was a midwife?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	So she birthed a lot of people around here?
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah. A lot of them.
Ms. Brand:	And, if you don't mind me asking, when were you born?
Mr. Rush:	I was born July the 7th, 1927.
Ms. Brand:	I was born July 17th. You're 10 days older (laughs)
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) 10 days plus 50 years.
Ms. Brand:	About... um. And... July 7th, 1927. And who were your parents?
Mr. Rush:	My parents-my father's name was James Neverson Rush.
Ms. Brand:	Neverson?
Mr. Rush:	Neverson. Rush. And my mother's name was Roberta Brooks Rush.
Ms. Brand:	She was a Brooks before she married?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Is she related to Ruth Brooks? Or are you related to...
Mr. Rush:	Mm-mm (indicates no). Another set of Brooks. Well, all of them from Esmont, but it wasn't related.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. Are both of your parents from the Esmont area?
Mr. Rush:	My mother was. My daddy from here-Chestnut Grove.
Ms. Brand:	From Chestnut Grove.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. At that time-he was still from Esmont, but they never classified Chestnut Grove as Esmont. They always said 'Chestnut Grove.'
Ms. Brand:	They didn't what?
Mr. Rush:	Didn't classify Chestnut Grove as Esmont.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, they didn't.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh (indicates no)
Ms. Brand:	But now they do?
Mr. Rush:	Now they do. Now Chestnut Grove... Esmont... everything through the whole thing.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, cause I was wondering... oh, when did that happen?
Mr. Rush:	Well, that happened since the post offices been changed. See, it used to have two post offices for this district. One in Howardsville and one in Esmont.
Ms. Brand:	So they actually took one out.
Mr. Rush:	The one in Howardsville is still... I think that one is still in there, but it don't come this way no more. It just come round 723 and go out. But now they go-now everybody took that whole area over, the houses go in the other direction.
Ms. Brand:	I see. So you go with the Esmont post office.
Mr. Rush:	Esmont post office.
Ms. Brand:	I see. Alright. And your mother was from... Esmont.
Mr. Rush:	She was from Esmont.
Ms. Brand:	Do you know how they met?
Mr. Rush:	I don't know how they met... they met a little bit before my time. (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	(laughs) Yeah, probably.
Mr. Rush:	I don't know how... I never heard them talk about that too much, about how they met.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	But this was my daddy's second wife.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, she was.
Mr. Rush:	Yes, the first wife was a Wheeler.
Ms. Brand:	A Wheeler, oh.
Mr. Rush:	Wheeler.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. Did they have any... did he have any children from his first wife?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, he had one stepdaughter by his first wife. Her name was Mary. She's been dead for quite a few years.
Ms. Brand:	Mm. Was she Mary Rush or Wheeler?
Mr. Rush:	No, she wasn't married to nobody. She was just a... a foster child by his first wife.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, I see.
Mr. Rush:	Unlawful-what do you call those things? Another man's child.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	My daddy didn't have no children by her.
Ms. Brand:	He didn't.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh (indicates no)
Ms. Brand:	Oh, I see.
Mr. Rush:	She lived... oh, my daddy's first wife lived I think... they probably stayed together for at least maybe 5 or 6 years before she died.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, I see. Did he continue to raise the daughter?
Mr. Rush:	No, she was taken with her mother's- for a while she was staying with her grandfather, anyway.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, I see.
Mr. Rush:	That was Preston Wheeler.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. And then he married your mother.
Mr. Rush:	He married my mother, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And how many children did they have?
Mr. Rush:	11. (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	My goodness! (laughs) 11. alright. Can you name 'em?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. My oldest sister's name was Louise. She was a Swayne.
Ms. Brand:	Swayne?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	S-W-A-Y-N-E?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Mr. Rush:	That's how you spell that. My next sister's name was Sarah. She married a Scott from Esmont. The one after that, my sister's name was Daisy. She married a Grey from Chestnut Grove.
Ms. Brand:	She married a...?
Mr. Rush:	Grey. Grey.
Ms. Brand:	Grey... and lived in Chestnut Grove...
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. And my sister after that's name was Florence.
Ms. Brand:	A lot of girls.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. She married a... she married a Dillard.
Ms. Brand:	Oh. That's a big family around here, isn't it?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. And my youngest sister's name was Catherine. She married a Dillard. Her and Florence married two brothers.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Both of them dead now.
Ms. Brand:	The brothers.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Ok...
Mr. Rush:	Ok, now my brothers: My oldest brother's name was James Rush. He lived next door.
Ms. Brand:	To here.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Next door here (indicates).
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	My next brother, his name was John. He died of heart attack. But he's my late John Rush. That was my next brother. And then I come in, I'm the next one: William Rush.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Mr. Rush:	Then my next brother's name was Fred. He's dead. And then after that, my next brother after Fred, his name was Robert. He's in West Virginia. My youngest brother is Walker. He lives up the road here.
Ms. Brand:	He still lives up the road here?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	So most of you didn't move too far.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh (indicates no) - not too far. W...
Ms. Brand:	Wh... oh, go ahead.
Mr. Rush:	Don't know what I was gonna say now (laughs).
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	We, uh... we've been pretty close together ever since we got married. Most of the time before I got married I was away from here. I didn't stay here too much.
Ms. Brand:	You did what?
Mr. Rush:	I was away from here.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I worked in West Virginia for a long time.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, you did. What were...
Mr. Rush:	Working on the railroad.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, is that right?
Mr. Rush:	Yup. I met my... (points at wife who is sitting beside him) fiancé and I came back here and married her. Her and I went to school together, but she wouldn't have me then, so when I left she decided to marry me (laughs).
Ms. Brand:	(laughs). And you're from Esmont?
Mrs. Rush:	I'm originally from Howardsville.
	(someone knocks on the door. Mr. Rush goes to the door)
Ms. Brand:	Howardsville.
Mrs. Rush:	Right up the road.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	But you went to school over here?
Mrs. Rush:	Yeah. We went to school over there.
Ms. Brand:	At the Esmont school?
Mrs. Rush:	No, it was Chestnut Grove school.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok
Mrs. Rush:	Over there.
Ms. Brand:	That's not the one where Benjamin Yancey was teaching.
Mrs. Rush:	No, uh-uh. Benjamin Yancey, out that-a-way.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mrs. Rush:	And ours was back this-a-way, that school, where we went to. I wouldn't let William catch my hand (smiles). Take off and run... (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	(laughs)
Mrs. Rush:	I would have never known that we was going to marry.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, when I left here and came back she must have saw something different in me, I reckon.
Mrs. Rush:	(laughs)
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I guess she decided... in fact, though, I bought me a nice looking car.
Ms. Brand:	Is that what it was?
Mr. Rush:	That's what got her.
Ms. Brand:	(laughs)
Mrs. Rush:	(laughs) That's what he says.
Mr. Rush:	I bought a '41 Packard two-tone, and she loved the car so much she got in and wouldn't get out. (laughs)
	(laughter)
Mr. Rush:	And after that I had her ever since - going on 52 years.
Ms. Brand:	Well, you gotta do what you gotta do, right?
	(laughter)
Mr. Rush:	That's right.
Ms. Brand:	You've been married for 50 years?
Mr. Rush:	52 years. Going on 52 years
Ms. Brand:	Wow. That's wonderful. So were you in the same class?
Mrs. Rush:	Uh-uh. (indicates no)
Mr. Rush:	No... mm-mm (indicates no). She always had more reading ability than I did, so I couldn't ever catch up with her.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	We were in the same school, but not in the same class.
Ms. Brand:	But the classes went by what your ability was, not by what age you were.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-mm. (indicates no) What you know. I ain't never knowed too much, so she... (laughs). Probably that's why she wouldn't of had me I reckon a little bit, too.
Ms. Brand:	What's that? Sorry.
Mr. Rush:	That's why she was reading she wouldn't of had me, I reckon, because I didn't do enough for her. But I learned a lot after I got away from school. And, what I learned, she loved it. I came back and married her.
Ms. Brand:	So when were you married?
Mr. Rush:	We married January the 20th, 1951.
Ms. Brand:	January the 20th?
Mr. Rush:	20th. 1951.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. Yup. Just about 52 years.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it will be 52 years coming January.
Ms. Brand:	Yup.
Mr. Rush:	Yup. My daddy died on December 28th, 1950-when my daddy died.
Ms. Brand:	Aw, he just missed it.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, he just-just... well, was just sick. We dated a little while before we got married. Probably a couple of years.
Ms. Brand:	You dated.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes) So my daddy was kind of fond of her because she was kind of a quiet girl, you know? He liked her.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes) She's still quiet.
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) Yeah.
Mrs. Rush:	(laughs)
Mr. Rush:	She is. So we got along pretty good. We raised 7, 8 children.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes)
Ms. Brand:	Eight children.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes) Yep.
Ms. Brand:	Was that one who just went through? (refers to young man who came out of one of the rooms and went out a little bit earlier)
Mr. Rush:	That was the baby who went through here just now.
Ms. Brand:	That's the baby.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, he's a twin to a girl. She's in Charlottesville.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. So - ok. Let me get your kids, then.
Mr. Rush:	Um, my oldest daughter's name is Patricia Brooks.
Ms. Brand:	Patricia what?
Mr. Rush:	Brooks.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	She works at the university.
Ms. Brand:	Does she?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Oh!
Mr. Rush:	And next daughter after that, her name is Phyllis Thomas-Davis. Phyllis Davis. She's living next door over there at the house on the hill there.
Ms. Brand:	She does now?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes)
Ms. Brand:	Is that the same house that your brother used to live in?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh. (indicates no) No, my brother lived over here behind me (points). This one she lived that way. (points)
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	And my next daughter is... is-
Mrs. Rush:	Geneva
Mr. Rush:	Geneva Barbara.
Mrs. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Geneva.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Geneva. Barbara. She lives in Charlottesville.
Ms. Brand:	Geneva-was that a family name?
Mr. Rush:	I reckon it was. I got one or two in my family named Geneva.
Ms. Brand:	Oh you do? Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Yes. And my daughter after her is-
Mrs. Rush:	Pearl
Mr. Rush:	Is Pearl. She is the twin to the boy that just left here.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	And my oldest son, his name was John, but he got killed quite a few years ago.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	The next one after him, his name was William Jr. He works in Charlottesville. And the one after that, his name is James McKinley, he works in Charlottesville at the University.
Ms. Brand:	He works at the University?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. So you got a lot of connections to University.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm (indicates yes). And Patrick, that's the boy that went through, his name is Patrick. That's the last boy.
Mrs. Rush:	He's babysitting mostly for our grandson.
Ms. Brand:	What's that?
Mrs. Rush:	He's babysitting mostly for our grandson.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, Patrick. That's the one that I just saw.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	And he's the twin to -
Mrs. Rush, Mr. Rush, Ms. Brand:	Pearl.
Ms. Brand:	I see.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And who's grandson does he babysit? I mean, whose son?
Mr. Rush:	That's Phyllis's son.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
	(Ms. Brand moves microphone from the floor to the table in front of Mrs. Rush)
Ms. Brand:	I want to make sure I pick both of you up.
Mr. Rush:	-Uh...
Ms. Brand:	Um... oh, go ahead.
Mr. Rush:	What was I going to say? I don't know. I forget what I was going to say. I don't know... but anyway, say what you were going to say, then I'll think about what I was going to say.
Ms. Brand:	Alright. Well, I was just wondering how you got to working on the railroad.
Mr. Rush:	Oh. Well, I got started when I was a young man, around 17 years old.
Ms. Brand:	Oh!
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I went to West Virginia with a friend of mine, and I liked the work pretty good-and the chance of getting away from home, too. So-
Ms. Brand:	So, by age 17 you weren't in school anymore, were you?
Mr. Rush:	(indicates no)
Ms. Brand:	When did you-how long did you end up going to school?
Mr. Rush:	Oh, I didn't stay in school long enough to know I've even been there. (smiles) I went to school-tell you the truth, I didn't go no further than the fourth grade.
Ms. Brand:	Fourth grade. Wow.
Mr. Rush:	I suppose I made it-see, back in that time was pretty tight. My daddy had 6-7 children then, and somebody had to help him. Well, he was beginning to get old then and needed some help
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	And as we got big enough to work, we thought it might be more helpful helping him...
Ms. Brand:	Sure
Mr. Rush:	At that time with having to take care of the house and feed these children and so forth, so we went to work to help him, support him.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	So, I stayed over there for quite a few years, and then by that time I... I found out that we were a lot of support to him by being out there, because by that time my oldest sister just started to-had one or two foster children, and was staying...
Ms. Brand:	Your sister.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah, she was staying at home with my daddy and them, so we had to help support them. I had some younger sisters and brothers here that were in school, so we'd have to support them, so-I was more help to my parents than school would, because- I needed an education. Real bad. But didn't have the opportunity to get none.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	See, that's why when the school closed up right over here we had no way of getting to school but walk. See, we- I never rode a school bus. We weren't allowed to ride a school bus, we didn't have none.
Ms. Brand:	Weren't allowed?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh. (indicates no) Didn't have no school bus for black children. Uh-uh, no. We had to walk, or parents make a way for you to get there.
Ms. Brand:	But there was one for the white children.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah, there was one for the white children, but we didn't have one. And see, the one that the white children had, they was-the white people were able to get together and help support the kind of school bus to get their children to school in. I don't know how much assistance or how much funding they got from the State, or what. But we didn't have anything, we didn't get nothing at all. We had to, like, walk from here on over to the school every-year round-maybe four miles to school over here to get there, and when the weather gets bad you couldn't get there.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	Of course the roads, like I told you, was the WPA highway then, and when snow'd get bad, they couldn't walk through the snow. Part time they was half bare-feet anyway, so you couldn't get to school.
Ms. Brand:	You were half barefoot, you said.
Mr. Rush:	Half bare-feeted, yeah. So the shoe wasn't too much good. (laughs) So we were thinking, as soon as we got big enough to go to work, we was going to work to help support our families.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	So we did that. Me and my two oldest brothers. So we took care of my daddy, and my mamma, and little sisters and brothers and my nieces and nephews up until they got big enough to take care of themselves.
Ms. Brand:	So the boys went to work, but the girls stayed in school?
Mr. Rush:	Yes, a lot of the girls stayed in school. Yeah, they stayed in the school.
Ms. Brand:	How come?
Mr. Rush:	Well, they couldn't get no job then nowhere. Other than babysitting for somebody, maybe washing their dishes for probably about a dollar a week. That won't no money. (laughs) So - not enough to do no good.
Ms. Brand:	No, it isn't.
Mr. Rush:	At labor we was making at least around a dollar and a half, or two dollars an hour, and that was good money for back then.
Ms. Brand:	A hour??
Mr. Rush:	A-huh. And that was good money! Back in that time.
Ms. Brand:	That is a lot of money.
Mr. Rush:	See, back in-see, you had to be a good man around here and then you get ten cents an hour. But on the railroad we were making good money.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	That's how I helped to support our parents.
Ms. Brand:	Hm. So what kind of things would the boys do?
Mr. Rush:	On the railroad?
Ms. Brand:	I mean, just what kind of jobs did you have helping support... you know, from fourth grade after you quit school.
Mr. Rush:	Oh, well we could do whatever a man did at the time. Lay track, bed tires, (inaudible)
Mrs. Rush:	Cut pine wood.
Mr. Rush:	Cut pine wood, do everything, you know. Do all this kind of work.
Ms. Brand:	So four... you must have been... 10 years old when you started working!
Mr. Rush:	I worked younger than that. But I wasn't on the railroad. I started working when I was six years old.
Ms. Brand:	You started working when you were six.
Mr. Rush:	When I was six. Yeah. But back then I used to work in summertime. We didn't have no school in the summer no way. I worked-walked down from here on down to... next to Scottsville down there, on the back way.
Ms. Brand:	Doing what?
Mr. Rush:	Working on a farm down there
Ms. Brand:	Doing what?
Mr. Rush:	Cutting corn, shucking hay, hauling hay, driving team... did all that stuff. Driving horses, you know?
Ms. Brand:	Six years old.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	Had to carry water for the people that were older than I was. Had to carry water for them.
Ms. Brand:	Mm. Drinking water.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. And the first thing I did, though, when I left here. I went with my daddy cutting pinewood. Had to cut the cordwood, had to cut six, what do you call it? Pen. It would be five feet high, with four sides on it. Had to rack those up. You had to do six of those things for a dollar and ten cents. And we didn't cut six of them a day. All together we wouldn't make more than probably 75 cents a day-that's counting all four of us. My daddy and my other two brothers.
Ms. Brand:	You had to cut down the tree...
Mr. Rush:	Cut the tree down, skin it, and put it up.
Ms. Brand:	Skin it.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. Get the bark off.
Ms. Brand:	Ohhhh...
Mr. Rush:	They put it up...
Ms. Brand:	What did they use that, for pulpwood?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes) Pulp wood, mm-hm. Well, see, later years we-in later years after they came-started to take the wood with bark right on it. That time you had to cut the bark off it, but you ain't got to do that now.
Ms. Brand:	So what, now there's machines that do it or something?
Mr. Rush:	Machines do it now, yeah. We had to do it by hand.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	So that's how we made-help to support our parents till we got big enough to leave home.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Then after I got to be around 13 or 14 years old-I could work on the farm then driving horses and different things, you know. [when I was] a little bit bigger.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	So I worked down on the farm for a man named Mr. Langhorn. I worked for him for a while and I worked for a man named Alexander. I worked for all those people when I was just a boy.
Ms. Brand:	What, they were farm owners? They owned farms?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah. They owned farms.
Ms. Brand:	In Esmont.
Mr. Rush:	No, down here next to Scottsville.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. So-I assume these were white people?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah all of them were white people.
Ms. Brand:	And did any white people live in Esmont?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes)
Ms. Brand:	There were?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, some white people lived in Esmont. Uh... let me see, (inaudible) white people (inaudible) live in Esmont then. Now, (inaudible) in Esmont a man named George Moyer. And his farm on the bottom here, before you come up this hill we called it-there's a sign on there says "Wolftrap Farm"? I (inaudible)
Ms. Brand:	Wolftrap... I think I did see that.
Mr. Rush:	Down... bottom of the hill down here.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	That farm was owned by George Moyer then. And we used to work for him too, on the farm, for 25 cents a day. For a while. That was the closest job we had.
Ms. Brand:	That's the closest job?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. And then another man that had a farm, his name was Willie Dawson. Now, he had a store. We used to work for him, too. Cutting pulpwood for him and working on the farm too.
Ms. Brand:	You had to skin the pulpwood then, too?
Mr. Rush:	Had to skin it, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	So how do you do it?
Mr. Rush:	Something like a... what do you call it? A long blade you put on it. You draw it in the wintertime when no sapping. Summertime you take a spear and you peel it off with a spud knife.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, it's pretty easy in the summer?
Mr. Rush:	Easy in the summer, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Mr. Rush:	In the wintertime we had to do with a... drawing knife, we called it. I got my daddy's drawing knife right now, what he used to use back then.
Ms. Brand:	You have what?
Mr. Rush:	My daddy's drawing knife what he bought back then when I was just a kid. I got it in the house right now.
Ms. Brand:	You do?!
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh
Ms. Brand:	Still use it?...
Mr. Rush:	No, I don't use it-I keep it for souvenir (Mr. Rush & Ms. Brand laugh) No... No, Lord.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, that is a souvenir. It's the same one that you all use to use.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	That your dad used.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	Sixty-something years ago.
Ms. Brand:	Is it a one-person job? Or is it a...
Mr. Rush:	Well, one person could use it at a time. Some got a... kinda made like a square c-shape, like.
Ms. Brand:	Square c-shape. Alright.
Mr. Rush:	I mean just like that (shows with his hands)
Ms. Brand:	Like a clamp kind of thing.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. That's what it looks like.
Ms. Brand:	And then...
Mr. Rush:	You take it and you draw it-cut the bark off the wood.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. How long would it take to do one tree?
Mr. Rush:	Well, after you get used to doing it, you could do a tree in about-probably 20 minutes.
Ms. Brand:	A whole tree.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	See, I'd cut it in about 5-foot sections anyway.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	And each tree used to get about 4-5 sticks off a tree. Could do it in about 20 minutes.
Ms. Brand:	So what would they do with the tree after you got it ready?
Mr. Rush:	Well, they'd ship them away for the paper mill, I reckon.
Ms. Brand:	Would you have to bring it anywhere?
Mr. Rush:	No, we'd cut it up in the woods and pen it up, and they hauled it to the station.
Ms. Brand:	Pen it up?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	How do you do that?
Mr. Rush:	You take a stick of wood and you lay it down-a pen, it means just like this thing right here. (demonstrates with item on the coffee table) You come down this way, you go across here, you go across here, and you go across here (in the end the shape resembles a popsicle-stick tower: Each pair of parallel sticks is stacked atop a perpendicular pair of parallel sticks) And you keep stacking them one on top of another until you get up to 5 feet tall.
Ms. Brand:	Oh I see, so you could
Mr. Rush:	That was called a pen.
Ms. Brand:	I see, I pen.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. And once you get it up there like that, it takes six of those to make a cord.
Ms. Brand:	A cord.
Mr. Rush:	A cord. It took six pens. And then, if all we got was six pens, at that time it was a dollar and 10 cents. (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	That's amazing
Mr. Rush:	Yup. So... you got to work good to make... about two or three men to make four dollars a day.
Ms. Brand:	Man
Mr. Rush:	And you could hardly do that. Not in the wintertime.
Ms. Brand:	Could you live off of four dollars a day?
Mr. Rush:	We did. We had no other choice.
Ms. Brand:	Ok, so how do you do it?
Mr. Rush:	Well, at that time, you see, food was much cheaper than it is now.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	You could buy coffee for probably about 10 cents a pound.
Ms. Brand:	Coffee?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. And you could buy sugar for about 5 cents a pound.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	And you'd get a 24-pound sack of flour for about, maybe 50 cents.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Mr. Rush:	See, that's how you made it.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	And, you see, the rest of the stuff-if you labor-my dad, he had a milk cow and we got the milk and butter. Plus, he raised his own hogs and got their meat. So that's how we survived. And the women, see, they canned the whole summer.
Ms. Brand:	They did what?
Mr. Rush:	Canned. Put up canned stuff, they canned: Blackberries, and apples, and pears, peaches... whatever would come by-huckleberries-they canned it.
Ms. Brand:	Hm. For the winter.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. They did all that kind of stuff. Now, if it comes to that-if it be like that now, half of us would starve! Women don't know how to can now. (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	It's true!
Mr. Rush:	People ain't canning nothing now (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	I can make jam, but you can't live off of jam! (laughs)
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) No... so everything my daddy raised in the garden that we couldn't use, that's how my mother put it up. She canned string beans, she'd can everything she could get in there.
Ms. Brand:	Mm. So you had animals, but you also had a garden.
Mr. Rush:	We had a garden, yeah, we had a garden. We had, my daddy used to raise his own wheat.
Ms. Brand:	Wheat?!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	And corn.
Ms. Brand:	So you didn't have to buy flour.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-mm. (indicates no) And now, see, he'd make his wheat. Had to cut it with a cradle-I got that laying down there too-that he used to cut his wheat with. He cut this whole field of wheat just with a (inaudible).
Ms. Brand:	By hand.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. By hand. He'd cut, when you make a swipe, the blade is but so long (indicates with his hand), they have a bundle on that, then they dump it and make a bundle about this big. You take some of the wheat stuff and you tie that up and drop it in a pile, then you shuck it. Then you go to the... the thrash machine come by.
Ms. Brand:	That what machine?
Mr. Rush:	Thrash machine, that thrashes it out?
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh.
Mr. Rush:	And thrashes all of the wheat from the straw.
Ms. Brand:	What's that word? Stretch?
Mr. Rush:	Huh?
Ms. Brand:	Scratch?
Mr. Rush:	Thrash, not scratch. Thrash. The thing that beats the wheat up from the straw.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, that's what it's called.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	Thrash machine.
Mr. Rush:	Thrash machine, yeah. And then once you've done that, they let it dry for a while, then they take it to the mill. All of that work will probably make a barrel of flour.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. So they'll grind it for you at the mill.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh, yeah they grind it at the mill.
Ms. Brand:	Did you have to pay them to do it?
Mr. Rush:	No, they'd take out a-what do they call it?-they'd take so much out of the grain, so much that you hired him. That's how you got it ground.
Ms. Brand:	So that's their payment.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And what did they do with it?
Mr. Rush:	Well, they'd grind that and they could sell it if they wanted to. They'd have to get enough of it there. But everyone around used to go to the same mill anyway
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	You know, so they had people come around from all the way down to the bottom of the hill with a wagon full of wheat to get their stuff around there. Some leave it there, you know, over night, pick it up the next day.
Ms. Brand:	Mm. So most people didn't grow their own wheat.
Mr. Rush:	Most people didn't. A lot of them didn't. but everyone who was able, they grew their own wheat. My daddy grew his own wheat and he grew his own corn and stuff. That's how we survived, that's how he'd feed the little children
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, must have been. So who did all the gardening?
Mr. Rush:	Well, my daddy was in West Virginia most of the time. When he was in West Virginia my mamma and the children, they did it. He'd come home but once every-about once a month, maybe.
Ms. Brand:	What was he doing there?
Mr. Rush:	In West Virginia?
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm
Mr. Rush:	Working on the railroad.
Ms. Brand:	Oh. Is that how you got your job?
Mr. Rush:	That's how I got started. Not with him, but that's how I got started.
Ms. Brand:	So he was working on...
Mr. Rush:	That was good work. That was good work.
Ms. Brand:	It was?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Good money, and get a penny to eat, you know. They fed you, and they paid stead.
Ms. Brand:	They put you up.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Stayed in the shanty cars.
Ms. Brand:	Shanty cars...
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. The railroad cars, you stayed there, slept there, and eat in them. And you travel from West Virginia to anywhere you want to go to, and work.
Ms. Brand:	Anywhere you wanted to go?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah. Anywhere that the job lead you to. You'd be in West Virginia part time, might be in Virginia another part, might be in Kentucky a while. I worked in all them states.
Ms. Brand:	Wow! What railroad was it?
Mr. Rush:	It was C&O
Ms. Brand:	C&O. Is that the same line that comes around here?
Mr. Rush:	Oh this-right now it does, but the line that comes right through here and right through Esmont, that was the B&O.
Ms. Brand:	B&O?!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	What does 'B' stand for?
Mr. Rush:	Baltimore and Ohio.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, Baltimore and Ohio.
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) Wait, let me see before you put that down. You see, I've got a picture of it here.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, do you??
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. That was back yonder before...
Ms. Brand:	You know, I should come back with a camera and take a picture of those tools you were mentioning.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah, that's right.
Ms. Brand:	Because that would be nice to put along, you know, so people can see what it looks like.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, see what it looks like, yeah. This shows a picture of Esmont in 1903. That was the...
Ms. Brand:	(gasps) Wow!
Mr. Rush:	(points to the various buildings in the photograph) That store is still out there. That's Steve's store, the one that burned down. That's the post office. That's the old depot, used to be, they tore that down. This was where the road that goes by here, and that's the dirt road. And so all them they're not there now.
Ms. Brand:	Which, um...
Mr. Rush:	That's the old store, right there on [route] 715 on your right, see right before you get to the post office. It's still sitting there.
Ms. Brand:	I think I saw it. It's run down now, right? It's nothing inside there.
Mr. Rush:	No, it's nothing in there.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, I saw that one.
Mr. Rush:	And this...
Ms. Brand:	And the road passes right there, right now.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, right now. But it was a dirt road then.
Ms. Brand:	Where did you get this?
Mr. Rush:	A lady from Charlottesville, a nurse from Charlottesville had it, bought a picture at a flea market, she bought a picture frame and she gave it to me.
Ms. Brand:	Wow this is really, you know, historical.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	(reading from photo) November 23, 1903.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	She just found it in a flea market.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yep.
Ms. Brand:	That's pretty nice.
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) Yes, it is.
Ms. Brand:	Are you going to frame it?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I got a frame for it, when I'm not busy I'm going to put it in there
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. Yeah, that's real nice.
Mr. Rush:	And this was-this was the C&O. I thought it was the B&O, it's the C&O railroad.
Ms. Brand:	So you remember walking around over here?
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah. Yeah, I've been through the pavement before this hard-surface road got through. I'd walk through that dirt road, go to that depot right there, and that was there.
Ms. Brand:	What is that, a residence? That's a house?
Mr. Rush:	No, this was the train station.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, sorry. Ok.
Mr. Rush:	That was the railroad track, they tore that up. You don't see no railroad.
Ms. Brand:	It's not there anymore.
Mr. Rush:	No, all this gone. (points to where the railroad was) Telephone line they're not there anymore. Only thing out there now is the post office, and this building right here, that's all that's there.
Ms. Brand:	Right, the store and the post office.
Mr. Rush:	But the rest of it is just torn down. There used be a store right in here, but you can't see it. That' was old Payne's store. But that one got burned down.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, I saw that name.
Mr. Rush:	Just have a picture of it now.
Ms. Brand:	Where did I see that name?... Wasn't there a Reverend Payne? No. I can't think of it now. But what was the station like?
Mr. Rush:	Well, this is where you used to catch the day train and go to Richmond, go to Warren...
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	Then you get off the train at Warren to go to Scottsville.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, you had to switch?
Mr. Rush:	You had to switch trains. This one didn't go no further than to Warren. That's where that train went, to Warren. Then he'd come back and go to Schuyler.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. And what was the station like inside?
Mr. Rush:	Just a old, rundown... not rundown, but just an old frame building. The little ticket thing that we-that little teller-tick writing out that thing-tick, tick tick-writing (Inaudible)
Ms. Brand:	Oh, a little machine?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. She had that in there. The guy that used to run the place, his name was, he was a Heath. He dropped dead one day.
Ms. Brand:	Oh. Heart attack or something?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Heart attack.
Ms. Brand:	And was it segregated?
Mr. Rush:	Well... yeah, I guess. It was segregated because the blacks had one part, and the whites had the other.
Ms. Brand:	Was it separate rooms, or how was it organized?
Mr. Rush:	Well, in that station I think it was... let me see, the black and white weren't allowed to sit together in there, but at that time it didn't bother you too much because all the white knows all the black, and black knows the white, and so they didn't do it too bad.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	But there was a dividing line between them...
Ms. Brand:	Oh, there was a line.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	What, like painted on the floor?
Mr. Rush:	Run here, run there, and a big rope where you go through it. White on this side, black on this side.
Ms. Brand:	Oh. So there was a rope.
Mr. Rush:	It was a... what do they call it? Segregated.
Ms. Brand:	Right. So that's for getting on the train.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	But all the whites and blacks pretty much knew each other around here.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. They weren't too bad at it, but if push comes to shove with the blacks, then they (laughs) they didn't know the blacks, you know?
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Had to go stay with the white.
Ms. Brand:	Was the price the same to get on the train?
Mr. Rush:	(pause) As far as I know it was. I don't know what... but I don't think it was... it could have been, but I don't know.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Prices could have been a little bit different, but I don't know...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, I don't know either.
Mr. Rush:	It was altogether...
Ms. Brand:	So who was... oh, go ahead.
Mr. Rush:	And, uh, at that time-it wasn't just only here-it was, when I was in West Virginia we couldn't ride the bus (Inaudible)
Ms. Brand:	You couldn't ride the bus what?
Mr. Rush:	Couldn't ride the bus at... the front of the bus?
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	We had to ride in the back.
Ms. Brand:	Right
Mr. Rush:	So I got on the bus one night to go back on my little town I was visiting at, had to go back to my shanty cars and there was a guy sitting down in the seat, a couple seats faced to the back, sitting there by himself. The bus was crowded and I was standing up holding on to that little thing in the middle that you hold on to, and I went to sit down. I asked, 'is anybody sitting on that seat?' He turned and said, 'ain't nobody sitting there, but you ain't gonna sit there, though." So I couldn't get in there. I had to stand up. If he would let me sit down there, he couldn't. Occupied both seats. (pause) But I got a seat later on, though. After someone just behind me was-I he got up to the front and stood up and I got both seats. So I said, 'I'm going to sleep.' He told me that I wasn't going to sit down beside him.
Ms. Brand:	What's that?
Mr. Rush:	Told me that I wasn't going to sit beside him.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	I don't know if he thought I was going to bite him I reckon. I don't know what he though I was going to do. Because I couldn't sit there. And that was back in the '40s.
Ms. Brand:	That was in the 40s.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	When did the... but it wasn't until the '50s, I think, when they cancelled that law.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah around... something like '50-'51.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Something up in the '50s I remember when they started changing things. But they changed some parts. Some parts right now are still almost as bad.
Ms. Brand:	Some places now??
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, some of them just as bad because, see at that time what they were doing, they did it through ignorance. Now they do it with education, you know. (laughs) They still do it now, you don't know that you are being Jim-Crowed, but they still don't want you to get too close to 'em.
Ms. Brand:	Hm. Yup, it's true. Cause I guess everyone thought that education would be the... the answer.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, you know. Like the old man was saying one time, North Carolina senator said that the only good nigger was a dumb nigger. (laughs) Give him some education he won't be no good because he'd know too much. As long as you keep him dumb he was alright.
Ms. Brand:	Who said that?
Mr. Rush:	I heard the man say, well I don't know the guy who said it, 'the only good nigger was a dumb nigger.' If you don't give them too much sense, see? He was not good, because he'd know too much. And knowing something, he would no longer account on him.
Ms. Brand:	Hm. (pause) Well, they tried their best...
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah. Tried their best. That's why especially black children better get all the education they can get now because they're going to need it.
Ms. Brand:	That's right.
Mr. Rush:	If I had the opportunity like they have now, I could have been a lawyer! (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	Yeah? Is that what you would have been?
Mr. Rush:	Yes indeed! But I didn't have the opportunity to get it!
Ms. Brand:	What kind of lawyer would you be?
Mr. Rush:	Oh, my Lord. Hm.
	(Mrs. Rush, Mr. Rush & Ms. Brand laugh)
Mr. Rush:	I would have been... I would have been a lawyer.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	I was smart enough.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	But anyway, thank God that I got older. I mean, this is 74 years old.
Ms. Brand:	That's a blessing.
Mr. Rush:	It is. Things are pretty good now. I got a lot of friends-white and black-now.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	I got some of my best friends I got are white friends.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	People from around here?
Mr. Rush:	Not around here, but, you know-Charlottesville.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah. I got what you can call a true friend, you know. I got a lot of good black friends, but not a true friend like some of my white friends I got.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	And I got some enemies on both sides... (laughs) Some black and some white!
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	I think-and I know it. I don't think it, I know it, that the good outweighs the bad.
Ms. Brand:	The what?
Mr. Rush:	The good outweighs the bad. I got more good friends than I got bad friends. And I try to be a friend to everybody, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. (pause) So how many years did you end up working on the railroad?
Mr. Rush:	I worked the railroad about... probably five or six years.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. And most of that time you were in West Virginia.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm (indicates yes). I never worked much in Virginia. Most of the time in West Virginia and Kentucky.
Ms. Brand:	And so you must have been twenty... two or three? By the time you got back?
Mr. Rush:	Around 22, I reckon. Because I went there when I was... around 16 or 17 I reckon. 17. Because I registered when I was going to the railroad. I went to register for the army.
Ms. Brand:	Oh you did?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. I was on the railroad then.
Ms. Brand:	So you went into the service?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-mm. (indicates no) I didn't serve.
Ms. Brand:	Oh you just registered.
Mr. Rush:	I had a defense job. See, the railroad was a defense job then. And that's how I stayed out of service.
Ms. Brand:	Oooh, ok. So, this must have been getting close to World War II.
Mr. Rush:	It was. 1945...
Ms. Brand:	Oh, that's right. It was right after World War II.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Or actually during.
Mr. Rush:	During World War II.
Ms. Brand:	That's right. So you didn't have to go... in.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh. (indicates no) I didn't have to go in.
Ms. Brand:	Were you happy or sad?
	Mrs. Rush raises the television volume-voices of TV announcers covering an explosion in NY overlap with the discussion
Mr. Rush:	Well, at that time it didn't make any difference at that time because I didn't care... I didn't have nobody but me anyway.
	TV announcer: "This is 19th street between 6th and 7th avenue, the fire department and other emergency officials still arriving here on the scene. What we have seen so far is debris scattered all over the street, the fire department..."
Mr. Rush:	Where is this now?
Mrs. Rush:	In New York.
	TV announcer: "...we have seen much equipment here brought on to the scene. The fire department raising liners and buckets up to various floors along that building. The nature of the explosion at this time unknown. Unknown on what floor this explosion occurred in, or what it may have been caused by. Again, numerous officials here arriving on the scene. Details are still becoming available and we will try to pass as much along as it becomes available. Cindy and Michael?" News coverage continues... [Although it wasn't clear at the time, the explosion ended up being the result of some old boiler malfunction and failed school experiment, not a terrorist attack]
Mr. Rush:	A school.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	Terrorists.
Ms. Brand:	They said they do welding and automotive stuff in there, so it could have been...
Mr. Rush:	Hard to tell.
Ms. Brand:	Acci... it could have been an accident.
	news broadcast continues
Ms. Brand:	So, uh, do you want to continue?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, if you want.
Ms. Brand:	So... the railroad job was considered like a defense job?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah. You take all railroads and farms-all that stuff was defense work, because they supply needs for the army. That's why they called it defense jobs.
Ms. Brand:	Oh! Because the railroad supplied.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, the railroad supplied the transportation and the-all this kind of stuff.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, I didn't think of that-that's true.
	(pause)
Ms. Brand:	Did anyone in your family end up going to the service?
Mr. Rush:	No, none of my brothers ever got to serve, but I had a son that was in service.
Ms. Brand:	Oh. That was after World War II.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, this is in the-not the Korean War-this little thing they're having now. He's in the service-what time was McKinley in service?
Mrs. Rush:	Oh...
Mr. Rush:	12-14 years ago. When the war was.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	What was that, the Gulf War.
Mr. Rush:	Probably something like that. He was in for a while.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	He never went out of the States. Stayed in the States.
Ms. Brand:	He stayed in the States?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Well, that's good.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah
Ms. Brand:	Did you want to-did you ever consider going into the service?
Mr. Rush:	I didn't mind it, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	I didn't mind-I didn't care if I would have went then. It didn't make a difference. I used to like the uniform! Looks to me like the soldiers had a better chance getting the women! (Mr. Rush & Ms. Brand laugh) That's why I wanted to go in there, but other than that I didn't care for it.
Ms. Brand:	Well, you had a uniform working on the railroad, didn't you?
Mr. Rush:	Just had nothing but a regular pair of overalls and stuff like that
Ms. Brand:	A what?
Mr. Rush:	Overalls. We had overalls.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. Soldiers had on, you know, army uniforms!
Ms. Brand:	(laughs) Right.
Mr. Rush:	And every woman you see were falling for uniforms!
	(laughter)
Ms. Brand:	Were there a lot of soldiers around here?
Mr. Rush:	There was a few around here. In fact, her boyfriend was a soldier before she met me!
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Well, see? It didn't make a difference! He had a (tape cuts off)
	(end side 1 / begin side 2)
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it was. Yep. (pause) but he didn't have no car, though.
	(laughter)
Ms. Brand:	Especially not a two-tone car!
Mr. Rush:	That's right. Two-tone Packard too. That's a nice car.
Ms. Brand:	Packard. Oh!!!
Mr. Rush:	That was a nice car.
Ms. Brand:	Isn't that the people who make Austin? (I mean 'Aston')
Mr. Rush:	I don't know what they make, it was a Packard Clipper-they made that kind of car. It was a nice... I don't think they make them now. Mind, it was... a fine looking one.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Yes...
Ms. Brand:	What colors?
Mr. Rush:	Black and white.
Ms. Brand:	Oh... when they say 'two-tone,' was that always what it was? Black and white?
Mr. Rush:	No, it could be any kind. It could have been tan and white, or tan... any kind of car. That's just the one that I had.
Ms. Brand:	Right. The top part was white.
Mr. Rush:	The top part was white, and the body part was black.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	It was nice. Yup.
Ms. Brand:	How did you get it?
Mr. Rush:	Well, I bought that car from a guy in Esmont, used to run a store. The name was Purvis. Jack Purvis, he was the agent for the Chevrolet place in Scottsville, so I bought it from down there.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, it's a Chevrolet?
Mr. Rush:	No, it was Packard, but Chevrolet people were selling it.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. You remember how much it cost?
Mr. Rush:	I believe I paid 240 dollars for it.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	Then.
Ms. Brand:	Did you buy it new?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-um. (indicates no) No, it wasn't new. It was '41 and I bought it, I think, in... probably '46, '49-something like that. It looked like new, though.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it looked like new. I mean, just-nice doors, had all kinds of fancy dashboard on it... yeah...
Ms. Brand:	What's a fancy dashboard?
Mr. Rush:	The thing had like, uh... (looks around) Something like that wall there, you know? (points to wooden panel wall)
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Kind of a brown-looking stuff. And automatic clutch, and buttons and stuff there that you work with.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok! Yeah... So you mean it kind of looked like wood? That kind?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah, I know that. That's nice. That's still nice.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it is. I loved that car. But what happened to that car? I think I... I wrecked it.
Ms. Brand:	Oh...
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, just before we got married. I wrecked that car.
	(pause)
Mr. Rush:	Went down around the curve, right before I got to the creek, before I got to Wolftrap Farm down there, hit em right in the curve one Sunday.
Ms. Brand:	Oh...
	(pause)
Mrs. Rush:	Is it hot in here to you?
Mr. Rush:	You want the fan on?
Mrs. Rush:	Yeah, because my arms are sweating.
Mr. Rush:	I had it on low... (turns the fan on higher) Yep. But those were good days, though. I liked them days.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Didn't have no money. Didn't have nothing I could call my own.
Ms. Brand:	Hm...
Mr. Rush:	But I was happy. Yep. Just... didn't have nothing to look forward to, but now I have everything to look forward to now. You got children you've got to think about, grandchildren, you got your great-grandchildren, and... my wife is not in the best of health and I ain't either, so... you worry. But you didn't have to worry about then.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Makes a big difference.
	(pause)
Mr. Rush:	One thing I wouldn't do-I wouldn't trade this time back for that time now. Because looks to me like now you do have more freedom. More freedom than you had then.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	You feel free to go to places now, you're not going to be told 'you can't go this, you can't go there,' you know. You used to go to Charlottesville to buy a sandwich, you got to buy it up out of the window, but you couldn't go in to get it. Had to go by the window. And the restaurants too...
Ms. Brand:	Out the window.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, you'd go up to the back window and buy. You couldn't go around to the inside to buy no sandwich.
Ms. Brand:	What kind of-for what? To buy what?
Mr. Rush:	A sandwich. Something to eat.
Ms. Brand:	Really. So it was a restaurant.
Mr. Rush:	All the restaurants. Right across now from the-remember where the old bus station used to be at? On the corner right there?
Ms. Brand:	Corner of what?
Mr. Rush:	On the corner of, what street was that? Ridge Street, wasn't it?
Ms. Brand:	Ridge and Main?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I think it was Ridge Street.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, that's where it still is.
Mr. Rush:	It used to be down the hill from that. Bottom of the hill, that's where it used to be at. That was the old bus terminal. And on the corner there was a restaurant. They called it the C&O restaurant.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, I've seen that place. It still is, it's still there.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. And it had a window right beside it, you go to that window and buy your food and couldn't go inside there to get nothing. Black had to buy it out there.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	So now you can at least go in a place and eat. Without any problem.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	My wife and I went to Richmond one time, way after it ended, to one place down on... remember the street it was on? I can't think of it now.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-um. (indicates no)
Mr. Rush:	Went to the place to buy some breakfast, sat down on account of to eat our breakfast-wouldn't even serve us!
Ms. Brand:	They wouldn't.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-um. (indicates no)
Ms. Brand:	So what would they say?
Mr. Rush:	Say nothing. We said 'must not have nothing to eat there.' We had to get up and go somewhere else.
Ms. Brand:	So they wouldn't actually say, 'there's nothing for you to eat here'?
Mr. Rush:	No, we tried to order our food, they look at us and go on to someone else, wait on somebody else. Then we said 'we're never going to eat nothing in here' so... we had to leave. And that was, oh, I don't know... That wouldn't have been but... maybe 25 years ago, right?
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	25??
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	So that's... 1970s!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yup.
Ms. Brand:	And they're still doing that.
Mr. Rush:	Still doing that down there then. But I think it's a little better than that now, because I know down to Richmond now you eat at where you want to eat at, regardless the color of your skin.
Ms. Brand:	Hm. Weren't there restaurants also that were just, you know, mainly for black people?
Mr. Rush:	Well, they had one in Charlottesville called the Hilltop.
Ms. Brand:	Hilltop.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. But that was for black peoples, and...
Mrs. Rush:	Wesley's
Mr. Rush:	Wesley, yeah. Also for black peoples. And, well (inaudible) I forgot the name of that one we used to go to.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	Had two-three, enough for black people.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	You know where they had those black-people places at? Look like it was run down, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah...
Mr. Rush:	It didn't look like you would like to go there and eat nothing.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	But I guess it was alright, though, because I ate there and it didn't kill me, so... (laughs) I don't know... just didn't look clean.
Ms. Brand:	Right, but it wasn't like, a rest-you know, it wasn't fancy or anything.
Mr. Rush:	No. Another place in Charlottesville called P. Chapman down on Commerce Street.
Ms. Brand:	What's it?
Mr. Rush:	P. Chapman. That was a restaurant too, right there where... all those places, now they tore all those places down.
Ms. Brand:	Hm... around where was it?
Mr. Rush:	Well, you know right on top of the hill in Charlottesville, where they got that rental place at now, right there? On Main street right across from the bus station?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Well, see, it used to be a big restaurant right where that place is.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. Next to Fourth Street.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, and that was-that is what they called 'Hilltop.'
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	And around behind there-down behind there was a place that was called Commerce Street, that was P. Chapman.
Ms. Brand:	That's where the-
	(phone rings, Mrs. Rush picks up, tape is paused for the duration of the conversation)
Mr. Rush:	Supposed to have surgery tomorrow.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, who is?
Mr. Rush:	I do ... (discussion about surgery)
Mr. Rush:	Now. What were we talking about before I got this call? We were talking about what...
Ms. Brand:	Um... oh, Chapman, oh, I was wondering... you were saying that P. Chapman was on Commerce Street.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Isn't that whole area called Vinegar Hill?
Mr. Rush:	Well, Vinegar Hill didn't go quite down on to that street. It went down to that street, but that street that comes to there, that's Commerce Street.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. And that's where the Joker's barbershop is, right?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	You ever go there?
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah, I used to go there all the time.
Ms. Brand:	You know Mr. Payne?
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah! When I had some hair to cut... after I got bald I stopped going there. My grandson still tries to cut my hair... (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	Your grandson.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, he cuts it here?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, he cuts it here. My grandson or my son-in-law. (inaudible) them people look for hair, they have nothing to cut, but they all pay the same price for looking for hair. When I got bald-headed (inaudible)
	(laughter)
Ms. Brand:	I know Mr. Payne, so...
Mr. Rush:	Really?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, we're... we're friends.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. (laughs)
Mr. Rush:	Hm.
Ms. Brand:	He said he knows a lot of people out in Esmont, but he's too frail to make the trip, I guess.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah, hm. Yeah, I guess so.
Ms. Brand:	So you ever go around to Vinegar Hill?
Mr. Rush:	I don't go out there to eat too much. I'd go through there quite often, but... I went to that rental place there the other day where I tried to rent a piece of equipment. Run a water line down to my lake down there.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, you have a lake!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Mr. Rush:	Right down there.
Ms. Brand:	You built it?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. I had it built, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. Oh, you had it built.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. They built it for me, and I stocked it with fish.
Ms. Brand:	Oh!!! How deep is it?
Mr. Rush:	It's about 20' at the deepest point.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, that's deep! What kind of fish?
Mr. Rush:	I got bass, trappers, catfish...
Ms. Brand:	Mmm!
Mr. Rush:	And brims... all kinds in there.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Mr. Rush:	Yep. Nice fish in there.
Ms. Brand:	You like fishing.
Mr. Rush:	You know, that thing's been out there, going on 16 years, I know fish in there since it's been there. (laughs) I don't have the patience to sit there in one place fishing, when I look at something that needs to be done somewhere else, like cutting grass or doing something.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah.
Mr. Rush:	I like fishing, but I go deep-sea fishing when I go.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, you do? On a boat?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	You have a boat?
Mr. Rush:	No. I got a little boat, but we'd rent a boat and go on deep-sea fishing. A big boat.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. Yeah, I...
Mr. Rush:	It's fun out there, you know, out on the ocean.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. I know a guy in Proffit who does that. Every year him and a bunch of friends, they go over to... I guess they go on the James.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, we go down the Chesapeake, the James, down there.
Ms. Brand:	Right, Chesapeake.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. But I went there-we went to the Atlantic sometimes. I've done that once or twice. The last time I went down there with my son-in-law. We went up to Thomas River, up there next to Washington.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Catfish.
Ms. Brand:	And then you bring home... the goods.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Bring home a nice bunch of fish.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Then I have to clean them when I get there.
Ms. Brand:	You got to clean them?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah... I clean them. I hate cleaning fish. My son-in-law don't mind. He cleans them most of the time.
Ms. Brand:	That's the part I don't like.
Mr. Rush:	No, uh-uh. If I clean them, I can't enjoy eating them if I clean them. I don't know-looking at all of their inside thinking, 'I gotta eat something like that?'...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. (laughs)
Mr. Rush:	No...
Ms. Brand:	Especially with catfish.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. (laughs) That's right. Eat some of everything.
Ms. Brand:	I know. You ever hunt?
Mr. Rush:	Oh yes indeed. I did a lot of hunting. I used to go bear hunting.
Ms. Brand:	Bear hunting!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	You ever catch a bear out there?
Mr. Rush:	Well, I went with some guy that caught one. I didn't get lucky enough to catch me one. I used to go up into (inaudible) top of the mountain up here, north of here. Do a lot of hunting up there. Fox Mountain.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	(inaudible) But I was never lucky enough to kill me one!
Ms. Brand:	I don't know if I... you might be lucky that you didn't!
	(Mr. Rush laughs)
Ms. Brand:	That's what it seems to me!
Mr. Rush:	No, a bear is a good thing to hunt. You know, if you don't find one that's wounded.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Like right over here, about (inaudible), me and my cousin killed two of them in one brush pile.
Ms. Brand:	Really.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	In one what?
Mr. Rush:	One brush pile. While they were asleep. The dog bit him when he got-he shot both of them.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. One shot will kill a bear?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah one shot will kill him, yeah. Yes, indeed. If you shoot him right.
Ms. Brand:	I'd just be too scared to mess with it...
	(Mr. Rush & Ms. Brand laugh)
Mr. Rush:	A lot of fun. It's a lot of fun, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Can you eat bear?
Mr. Rush:	Sure!
Ms. Brand:	Bear meat? You can?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, you can eat bear. It's good meat.
Ms. Brand:	Is it? What does it taste like?
Mr. Rush:	Well, it's got a taste of it's own. It tastes between beef and pork
Ms. Brand:	It does?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. I got a piece in my freezer now, from when my cousin gave me. I didn't eat it yet. It's been there for a while. I reckon it's still alright.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?...
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, somebody will cook it sometime...
Ms. Brand:	Hm... bear meat. I guess you get strong if you eat it. (laughs)
Mr. Rush:	No... I mean, no, it looks like you should be strong, but it's not. It tastes real good.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	If didn't anybody tell you-you wouldn't know what it was if didn't nobody tell you no way. You'd think you were eating beef or something.
Ms. Brand:	Oh really.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Yep.
Ms. Brand:	I think it would make you strong if you ate it.
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) Yeah, I reckon it will, because the bear has got nothing-it's all muscle.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah. Um, so when did you-did you ever fishing or hunting just as part, you know, when you said that there wasn't that much food around? For your families?...
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah. No, but that time I was too young to hunt then. Yeah, I didn't do no hunting then, but I did a lot of hunting when my children were coming up. I used to go hunting a lot.
Ms. Brand:	With your children. (pause) ...or for your children, what did you say?
Mr. Rush:	When my children were coming up. When my children were growing up.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, yeah.
Mr. Rush:	I had a job working on the State. I worked on the State for forty years before I retired.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	And then I had a-I'd get hunting season time off. My vacation, I'd take that off and go hunting. Some time in December. November through December I'd be off, do a lot hunting. Get my house and things killed while I was off.
Ms. Brand:	Like venison? Or...
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah. We'd kill deers. Well, they're too plentiful around here now, deers.
Ms. Brand:	It's what?
Mr. Rush:	Too plentiful-they destroy everything around here.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, yeah. Um... so you said you worked on the State?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah, I worked for the State for forty years. Then I retired. I retired from the State.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And what did you do there?
Mr. Rush:	Heavy equipment operator. I worked 16 years by the hour, then I got promoted to drive trucks and machinery, so I worked-I drove motor rater, front-end loaders.
Ms. Brand:	What's that? What operator?
Mr. Rush:	Um, motor rater, where you rate the road with.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok...
Mr. Rush:	And front-end loader, where you load stuff with to move things.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Yup.
	(pause)
Ms. Brand:	So you said for 16 years you worked by the hour?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	It wasn't full time.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it was full time but I couldn't get no vacation or no sick-leave pay, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	By working by the hour you didn't get nothing. All you could do-you weren't allowed to drive nothing. Well, at that time the blacks weren't drive nothing no way for a long time after I got out there.
Ms. Brand:	What do you mean? You couldn't drive any of the equipment?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh, no.
Ms. Brand:	So what did you do?
Mr. Rush:	I used a pick and shovel.
Ms. Brand:	(gasp)
Mr. Rush:	Loading by hand, unloading by hand and stuff... did that for 16 years.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	And see, you couldn't drive it, you couldn't even ride in front of a truck! You had to ride on the back of a truck with a piece of tin or something thrown on top of your head, or a piece of canvas or something. But things got better, though. They got a whole lot better now, but I already retired when things started getting good. (smiles)
Ms. Brand:	Oh. (chuckles)
Mr. Rush:	Yep. And my cousin, he's the superintendent right now.
Ms. Brand:	Is he?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm
Ms. Brand:	Hm!
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it got things a whole lot different now from what they used to be.
Ms. Brand:	He's the superintendent for...
Mr. Rush:	V-DOT. (Virginia Department of Transportation)
Ms. Brand:	Oh, for V-DOT!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Huh. So is that what you started-you started working for the State after you got done with the railroad?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. (indicates yes) I got done with the railroad when I came here and worked at the State quarry at Esmont for a while.
Ms. Brand:	You worked in Esmont.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. At the quarry down on where-at Esmont, I worked there.
Ms. Brand:	Soapstone?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. I worked there for about probably-oh, about two-three years, I reckon.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	And then I went to the State, stayed with the State until after I retired.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Stayed there-roughly, well, I stayed there until-I built my house from the State.
Ms. Brand:	You built your house?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah
Ms. Brand:	When was that?
Mr. Rush:	Oh, let's see. I got-I was married in '51; started building my house in 1954 was it? '53?
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	'53-'54 when I built this home.
Ms. Brand:	You built it yourself.
Mr. Rush:	A lot of it.
Ms. Brand:	Hm. And the rest-who else?
Mr. Rush:	I got a carpenter, helped me some.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Mr. Rush:	And I did a lot of it
Ms. Brand:	Somebody from around here?
Mr. Rush:	They used to be from around here, but they dead now.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
	(pause)
Mr. Rush:	I learned a lot by not having nothing, I reckon.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, I bet you did. (pause) I see you did.
Mr. Rush:	You find a lot of young people now, they don't have nothing, want to take what somebody else got. That's why they wind up in trouble, you know?
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	They don't want-hardly know how to do nothing.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah
Mr. Rush:	And then if they do know how to do a little something, they want the top price to start off with, and they can't do-and the first pay they draw, they're getting ready to leave. It ain't what they want.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Then you want something and you can't get it, then you wind up taking something.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	And that's where the trouble comes in.
Ms. Brand:	Sure. But it's also, people don't have as much opportunity, say, to raise their own stuff because people don't live in farms.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-mm. (indicates no)
Ms. Brand:	You know, you can't raise a garden if you live in an apartment.
Mr. Rush:	(chuckles) Uh-uh, no. You can't, no. And a lot of them, actually, that live in an apartments and houses, they don't realize that you could do more if you had something you can raise. Some of the stuff that you need. But they'd rather be right in town in an apartment, paying 6-7 hundred dollars a month-
Ms. Brand:	That's right.
Mr. Rush:	-will by them a place out in the county, in the country where you can build your own home, something of your own that, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	You could live there for about 20 years and you got more when you leave than after you went there.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Without change, just what you're putting an apartment-put it on your own home, something that you own it, you have it.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	But they can't see it like that.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah
Mr. Rush:	And in town you don't step in much, you know, when you walk on hard streets and things, they like that, you know. Hear the sirens and things blowing, you know... (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) All kinds of stuff... country. I love the country, myself. It looks like to me it's more free air, more free, you know, freedom and... just better for me out in the country. I've been a country boy all of my life and so... I expect to die in the country.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Yep.
	(pause)
Mr. Rush:	The one that's coming up now, that's my nephew. And the one next to it is my-my granddaughter.
Ms. Brand:	Granddaughter.
Mr. Rush:	My granddaughter, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	And the one right at the store, that's my grandson.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Mr. Rush:	And that old store, that's mine. (smiles)
Ms. Brand:	It is??
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	That old store is yours?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I'm remodeling it now.
Ms. Brand:	Are you?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	What are you going to do with it?
Mr. Rush:	I don't know... yet. Well, I - everybody's trying to buy it, but my grandson don't want to sell it because he said someday he might want to move in there himself and make his house out of it.
Ms. Brand:	It's a nice building, I saw it.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it is. It's nice material in that building
Ms. Brand:	Is it?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. It was 12 rooms. We took off some of the rooms that had gone bad. So we took some of them off, then remodeled putting on five more new rooms.
Ms. Brand:	Wow...
Mr. Rush:	So remodeling there.
Ms. Brand:	And the frame is still pretty sturdy?
Mr. Rush:	Everything is pretty good. That's a hardwood pine.
Ms. Brand:	It is? Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Tearing each room and flooring all of it.
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh. Wow.
Mr. Rush:	Except, the store part - that's got rickler floor going in to it.
Ms. Brand:	It's got what floor?
Mr. Rush:	It's got this ricker, rough floor in it. That's where the store part is.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	So what we plan on doing, we plan to remodel it, divide the rooms up, put in 2 1/2 baths-are gonna be in there...
Ms. Brand:	Is there any plumbing in there now?
Mr. Rush:	Not yet, no, there hasn't ever been in there.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. So you're gonna put all the plumbing in there.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, put all the plumbing in there, and have it rewired, you know. Do all this to it, then we're going to-well, the man said I could sell it for 150-200 thousand dollars if I get it fixed-if I wanted to.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	But, uh... I figured that if he wanted it, if he's living there right, not have a whole lot of rough crowds there, a lot of noise, you know-
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh.
Mr. Rush:	I'll let him have it.
Ms. Brand:	Well, for 12 rooms you could rent it out like a inn or something!
Mr. Rush:	We could, but now-we've cut out some of the rooms. Don't have 12 now, what we've got now, let me see... we've got five bedrooms, a large living room, and 2 1/2 baths.
Ms. Brand:	That's still a lot. And didn't you say you were going to add more rooms?
Mr. Rush:	We're adding some right now. Did you see where the new part is at?
Ms. Brand:	I didn't notice, but I'll look on the way back.
Mr. Rush:	Well, that part was an old porch. And another, we tore that off because it began to rot. We tore them off and we're moving something.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Mr. Rush:	Moving on in there now, so...
Ms. Brand:	Well, that's nice.
Mr. Rush:	And the house next to that, that was my land too before I gave it to Mr. Newhouse, and I let him have-
Ms. Brand:	Wow, you had a lot of land!
Mr. Rush:	I had right smart land, yeah. Had my grandchildren talk about it-I could have sold it off, but... (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	Aw... so what, you gave it all away?
Mr. Rush:	My grandchildren-yeah. The land here- next house is my daughter's, and that was mine too!
Ms. Brand:	Wow! So how many acres was it?
Mr. Rush:	Oh, I had all together land about 12-14 acres
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah, around that.
Ms. Brand:	14 acres, that's a lot of land!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm! (indicates yes)
Ms. Brand:	And you purchased it yourself?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Over the years.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. I bought it myself over the years.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	And I didn't realize that I could get good money for it. If I got all my children wanting to come back home, or to be around, I said they gonna be able to use it right and treat it right. I'd rather them have it. Money is something I can't carry away from here, so they can enjoy it while I'm here-if they want to.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, that's true.
Mr. Rush:	That's why that's all I got. Now, this part which runs down here, that's all mine now.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Some day I'll probably rent that trailer, since my granddaughter moved out of there. I'll probably rent that to somebody. Make a few dollars in there...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah!
Mr. Rush:	(laughs)
Ms. Brand:	I almost want to say I want it! (laughs) The ride here was so beautiful! It's really, like, gorgeous.
Mr. Rush:	Yes, it is. It is nice.
Ms. Brand:	But I do like living in town... (laughs)
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I figured you would...
	(laughter)
Ms. Brand:	Maybe when I get older...
	(laughter)
Ms. Brand:	Um... so when did that store used to be open-operate?
Mr. Rush:	The store hasn't been open since 19... and what, Louise? 1970 or so?
Mrs. Rush:	Back in the '60s, I guess.
Mr. Rush:	No, it was in operation in... probably '79...
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Up until then.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	And who used to run it?
Mr. Rush:	The last one to run it was a Jackson. It's name is 'Jackson Store' now.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	The sign says 'Ackson Store,' but the 'J' is gone, because it's the Jackson store, the name of it, see.
Ms. Brand:	(laughs) oh, 'Ackson'...
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, 'Jackson Store.' It used to be-Coleman built it there.
Ms. Brand:	Coleman?
Mr. Rush:	Coleman, uh-huh. All of them died. The whole Coleman family now is dead, so I bought the land from this-from the son-in-law.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	I bought up his land from him.
Ms. Brand:	So when you bought it, it was already out of use.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah. It was out of use. That old building. I thought of tearing it down, but nobody wanted it torn down, it was a landmark for this part of the country, so I just left it there.
Ms. Brand:	Oh. (pause) Who said it was a landmark?
Mr. Rush:	Everybody that comes through there notices the old store building-don't want me to tear it down.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	All the white-a lot of the whites, and a lot of the black folks.
Ms. Brand:	Too.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, want it to stay there.
Ms. Brand:	Huh.
Mr. Rush:	So I was paying tax on it, but the old building was doing nothing, just sitting there, so if I got remodeling, you know, try to make some use of it.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah!
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	I mean, it's the first think I noticed when I-when you come around down the road.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, first thing you see.
Ms. Brand:	You see this great big building...
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, a big building.
Ms. Brand:	And when you said 'store' I said, oh that must be the store.
	(Mr. Rush laughs)
Ms. Brand:	Even from far away I could tell!
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. Yes, that's the old store. That's the only store that used to be out here.
Ms. Brand:	Is it?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	What did they use to sell in there?
Mr. Rush:	They used to sell just groceries, mostly. No kind of dry good or nothing.
Ms. Brand:	Oh
Mr. Rush:	Just groceries.
Ms. Brand:	Wait, what's the difference between 'groceries' and 'dry goods'?
Mr. Rush:	Well, 'dry goods' they sell clothes and shoes and stuff. 'Groceries' they're selling something to eat.
Ms. Brand:	Ooooh!!!!
	(Mr. Rush laughs)
Mrs. Rush:	Flour, meal, meat, sugar, lard... things like that.
Ms. Brand:	That all counts as 'groceries.'
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. Clothes are just 'dry goods.'
Ms. Brand:	Now, ok, so I can ask you another question I've been wandering about - what's the difference between 'grocery' and 'general...' Like a grocer and a general merchant?
Mr. Rush:	Well, general merchant is the store that you would have some of everything. You got groceries, you've got some dry goods, you've got gas, you've got all that stuff. That's a general merchant.
Ms. Brand:	Oh! Ok, so what was that? (the Jackson Store)
Mr. Rush:	That was just a grocery.
Ms. Brand:	So, just food.
Mr. Rush:	Just food.
Ms. Brand:	And if he had just sold, like, clothes and stuff and shoes, that would be dry good.
Mr. Rush:	That may have been a general merchant. If they had everything...
Ms. Brand:	If they had everything, it would be...
Mr. Rush:	General merchant store.
Ms. Brand:	I see. Ok. I was always curious about that, because people say it and I never asked... (laughs)
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) Oh, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Ok, now I got it. Um, and-so where would you buy clothes and stuff like that?
Mr. Rush:	You'd go to Scottsville or Charlottesville.
Ms. Brand:	Oh!
Mr. Rush:	And in Esmont-you could sell it at Esmont. That store, where I showed you the pictures just now? Steed store?
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh.
Mr. Rush:	He used to sell-that was a general merchant store.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Because, you see, he had clothes...
Mrs. Rush:	...and shoes, men's clothes, overalls, shirts.
Mr. Rush:	And that was mostly a dry-goods store. Steed's store out there.
Ms. Brand:	What is it called?
Mr. Rush:	Dry good.
Ms. Brand:	No, Steve?
Mr. Rush:	Steed. That was the man that runs the store.
Ms. Brand:	Hm. And the Jackson Store that was around here, was that segregated?
Mr. Rush:	No, they were owned by black people.
Ms. Brand:	It was owned by black people.
Mr. Rush:	Jackson was black folks.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. And the customers?
Mr. Rush:	Customers? Yeah, they were black and white.
Ms. Brand:	Black and white.
Mr. Rush:	That used to go there.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. So there was no separation.
Mr. Rush:	Was no separation there.
Ms. Brand:	Were the white people that used to go there, were they farmers? I mean, they worked on a farm?
Mr. Rush:	Some of them. Some of them, yeah. Right across the road, where it says 'Newhouse' right in front of where the store is at?
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm
Mr. Rush:	That used to be a little small farm, but it growed up in the last 25-30 years.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah?
Mr. Rush:	It used to be owned by the Clemmons.
Ms. Brand:	Clemmons.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Oh...
Mr. Rush:	He had a little farm over there.
Ms. Brand:	So would you work side by side with whites?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	On the farm?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, we used to work side by said with them. You couldn't sit at a table and eat with them. (pause)
Ms. Brand:	Even if you were working-farming together?
Mr. Rush:	That's right. Uh-huh. Because they eat, and there was another table in the corner, or sit at the door and eat.
Ms. Brand:	Even for the farm workers.
Mr. Rush:	Even for the farm workers, yup. Another farm used to be over here, a man called-the name of the farm was-what was the name of the farm? Maple Ridge farm now.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	It used to be Dawson farm. Was a relative's farm then. Used to belong to Willie Dawson. He had men working for him... I worked for him some time, too, back when I was just a little lad.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	And... (laughs) He had a big stump. But paid men went out, sat outside the door for to feed the hands in. People would come in the house and eat. We'd eat out there.
Ms. Brand:	He had you sit outside on the stump.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm, yeah. Put the food on the stump, you get the (inaudible) before you start eating. (laughs) But...
Ms. Brand:	Did it ever... I mean... did you ever get mad about it? Or...
Mr. Rush:	Well, no need getting mad because all of them were the same anyways. I believe you had to go somewhere white, it was the same way. It was no different. (laughs) No need getting mad at that one.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	You had to eat. You had to get the work somewhere, so... or if it wasn't a stump, it would be something worse than eating on a stump, so... might as well eat something.
Ms. Brand:	But, like, if you were sitting around with people, would you say, you know, 'this...' you know-'this doesn't feel right'? or...
Mr. Rush:	Well, was no need in saying it, because if you said it, it would make it hard on yourself.
Ms. Brand:	Oh...
Mr. Rush:	And if word got out, then you're a troublemaker, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Can no longer use you. And you can't go to the next people, because when you get a job - 'what happened when you worked for Mr. Dawson?' You done told why you left there, you know, and you can't get no job there. So, only way to keep a job like that-if you didn't like it you keep your mouth shut. If you didn't like it, you keep your mouth shut and make what you can.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Maybe pray that God will bless you and times would get better, which it did.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	So what was it like when-when they made the laws... you know, when segregation ended? Or when they said it ended, anyway.
Mr. Rush:	When they said it ended things got a little bit different. Everybody was... they didn't like it too much because didn't have the opportunity to work for nothing.
	(pause)
Ms. Brand:	Who didn't like it?
Mr. Rush:	Didn't nobody... had a big enough for you to work at. They didn't like it, but they didn't say nothing.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Mr. Rush:	But they made it harder for you (inaudible). you had to just-you had to be the best.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	If you don't, you couldn't work. And you couldn't travel but so far to get nothing, because everyone was going through the change at the same time. And didn't nobody like it, but it was the law.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Part of the law, so-you had to go along with the idea.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	Just stuck with it because you ain't got any better.
Ms. Brand:	So it actually got worse when segregation ended.
Mr. Rush:	It got worse in one way. And in one way it didn't, because you had an opportunity to make-to get paid for what you do.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, but at the other time they would give you what they want to give you.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, so...
Mr. Rush:	And if you were black, you didn't get nothing. You didn't get none.
Ms. Brand:	Oh right.
Mr. Rush:	And this way, it was different. Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	But the... the employers tried to make things hard. Hard on black people.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah. Sure they make it hard on people, if you was a troublemaker, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Yep.
Ms. Brand:	I guess they were forced to pay fair, though. At least that.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, yeah...
Mrs. Rush:	If they found out that you is black, and if they want to hire you, they won't hire you; they'll give you another job somewhere out of the state.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, especially a good-paying job.
Mrs. Rush:	Especially if it is a good-paying job from here to Richmond, or Baltimore, or anywhere besides working over there in Charlottesville.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	I got a lot of people-actually, in this community-I know I have a lot of friends of mine got-girls who had college degrees that could have got some good jobs and, they call in for to see the application, they call in about it and they'll say 'oh yes, we're still hiring. Sure, we'll be glad to have you.' But when she walked in the door, she said the expression on the woman's face dropped. Because she thought she was white when she heard her talking on the phone.
Ms. Brand:	Ohhh.
Mr. Rush:	Got to find out she was black and... things got kinda different. Said, 'oh well, we're gonna-we're still working on this application. We're gonna let you know something...' and she never did get that job.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. That's the way it was.
Mrs. Rush:	And now you see just pretty much black women and men working in these big places, these banks, and some of them are professors at the university, and...
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mrs. Rush:	All now.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm. Like my professors!
	(laughter)
Mr. Rush:	Yeah...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. Yeah, but you know-it's a long way yet from being...
Mrs. Rush:	From what it should be.
Mr. Rush:	It's never going to get back to normal in my time, I don't think.
Ms. Brand:	It never what?
Mr. Rush:	Going to be normal. Make it right, it will never be right. Not in my time, because sometimes, well you know how they still got this prejudice against... against the blacks. And... I don't know. Maybe in the next fifty years it will probably change, maybe it will be right nice. It's not going to be the way the Lord intended for it to be. No way. Not now. No... and it's worse now because when I was a young boy coming up, it wasn't but two slaves then no way.
Ms. Brand:	It wasn't but two what?
Mr. Rush:	Two slaves. That was the black man and the white woman. (pause) Now see, in the white man, the black man never been a slave no how.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Because a white man had a choice of any woman that he wants; He had her if he wanted her. And same goes for a black woman. If a white man wanted a black woman, he got her. And she wasn't ever enslaved. But a white woman and a black man never had a chance like this. If you catch a black man with a white woman back in that time, they would find some way to get rid of you.
Ms. Brand:	Sure.
Mr. Rush:	And up the road not too far from where I live at now-I won't put the man's name in it, but I know the man's name, but I won't put a name on it-they had a back (inaudible)-I heard my daddy talk about it-who used to kill back at night everyone who was working there, women and men and all. A white man gave a black woman some money. Who lived down in a shed. And she dropped the money somewhere. You know, she had a dime, she lost it. Couldn't find it. She struck a match looking for it and set the barn on fire. So... (chuckles). And the guy who used to work for him, she thought he-the man that owned the barn thought this guy did it, because they had a falling out. He came on out, got on up out of the house for to hang him, but they found out some kind of way to stop it. The man that owned the barn wouldn't put the rope on the neck. that's why he didn't hang him. Said, 'well, it's your barn, so you put the rope on. I ain't gonna hang him up for your barn.' So they saved that man. And I know the family well.
Ms. Brand:	The white family or the black family?
Mr. Rush:	I know the black family. I know some of the white family.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	How long ago was that?
Mr. Rush:	Well, my daddy said it happened back yonder in-happened before I was born. But the man that was supposed to have been hung, I knew his wife. Because when she died I was just a little lad when she died. But she got a lot of kinfolks (inaudible) now.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
	(pause)
Mr. Rush:	That's just the way it was. See, now, this man-if he hadn't had that woman down in the barn, he never would have lost that money.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Wouldn't have burned that barn down looking for it.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Just-it's a little different now because it's not as bad now as then because a black man can walk the streets right now with a white woman if he wants to. If she wants him, they can walk the street together. Hand in hand.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	And that's something that couldn't happen back yonder, 35-40 years ago.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Mr. Rush:	Hm. Just (inaudible) with the white man now, mostly did.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. It's not perfect, though.
Mr. Rush:	Um-mm. (indicates no)
Ms. Brand:	You can't walk like that anywhere.
Mr. Rush:	No, not anywhere, uh-uh. Somebody will sneak around and get you later on if you don't, don't go over with it then.
Ms. Brand:	That's right, yeah.
Mr. Rush:	But. (sighs) I'm too old to get hurt by that now anyway because, (laughs) I got a wonderful wife, thank God, and she's black. (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	So... but I got a lot-like I said, I've got a lot of good white friends. We're just friends, that's all.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Just friends, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Were there any Native Americans? Like, Indians who lived around here?
Mr. Rush:	I don't know none of them.
Ms. Brand:	Or people who had, like, Indian ancestors? Grandparents or...
Mr. Rush:	Not that I know of.
Ms. Brand:	No.
Mr. Rush:	Uh-uh, not in this area.
Ms. Brand:	Because I know further down in, uh, well, maybe it's a lot further down-around Amherst-I know a lot of black people have also Indian in them.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah, probably in that area.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Up here in uh... I reckon it was south of here.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	A lot of blacks about (heavy? inaudible) mixing (inaudible)
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	But not so much around here?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-um. (indicates no)
Ms. Brand:	Um... (looks through questionnaire) I know there's certain things I'm supposed to ask... Um... Oh, did-I guess, did you or anyone in your family belong to any organizations?
Mr. Rush:	Such as?
Ms. Brand:	Like, well-church for instance, or...
Mr. Rush:	Oh, yeah! Chestnut Grove Baptist church is my church.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah? Still?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. Still is.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And that's the one you've been going to?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And are there different activities that go on-like different missions, or things like that?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, we got-we have missionaries, we have building committees.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	We've got...
Mrs. Rush:	Choirs.
Mr. Rush:	Choirs.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And are you in any of them?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. I'm a deacon.
Ms. Brand:	Oh are you?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, and I'm a trustee...
Ms. Brand:	Oh, so you're really...
Mr. Rush:	I'm a treasurer...
Ms. Brand:	And a preacher?
Mr. Rush:	No, I'm a treasurer. A treasurer. I take care of the money.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, treasurer. Ok.
Mr. Rush:	Treasurer. And I'm one of the committee workers.
Ms. Brand:	Community?
Mr. Rush:	Committee.
Ms. Brand:	Committee.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Anything in the church that needs to be done, see I work on that, too.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. So you're really in the church.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, I'm really in the church. Yes, indeed. And I do all the gardening at the church.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, do you?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. Make it beautiful. Flowers, and different-I got a picture of the church (goes to table to look for photograph) of the flowers I made... that I took of the church last... I mean, last year. That's where I took that from. I give most of them away. But, it was beautiful-some beautiful beds, what I made at this church. And I took-everyone seemed to like them, and some of them liked them and kept them. Didn't give them back. (finds photo) This is a bed...
Ms. Brand:	Oooh, wow!
Mr. Rush:	I made all this-that's my daughter's stuff right there.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, is it
Mr. Rush:	(inaudible)
Ms. Brand:	That is beautiful.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. I made lots of those, uh-I take care of all of the beds myself. I don't...
Ms. Brand:	This is the church?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. That's the side of the church.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. It's so well kept.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, it's beautiful.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. But how long ago was this?
Mr. Rush:	That picture I made last year.
Ms. Brand:	Last year.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. I made the bed last year.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. So you're working it again this year?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, this year. I hope I can get to it, but I don't - if this operation doesn't keep me down, I'm going to try to fix it this year again if I can.
Ms. Brand:	You gonna do the same colors? The same (inaudible)?
Mr. Rush:	It will probably be a little bit different. I'll probably make something a little different this year.
Ms. Brand:	Are these azaleas? Yeah, I guess so.
Mr. Rush:	No, some of those things, that's uh... these are azaleas. Impatiens.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, impatiens, yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Impatiens. That's impatiens, and these are (inaudible), and them are marigolds.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. And that's a nice picture, too. Did you take it?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Yeah, I took that.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. So it's a big church!
Mr. Rush:	Mm. It's a great big church. Yeah, we enlarged that church last couple years ago.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Mr. Rush:	It's a great big building now.
Ms. Brand:	Oh! It's brick.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. It's brick.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And the original part is brick, too?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. All of it is brick.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, it's not a wood frame.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. We tore the wood frame one down.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. How long has that church been active?
Mr. Rush:	Oh, it's been there since 1800 and something.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, it is?
Mr. Rush:	The old part. The name of it has been there, but see, the part that we tore down, that was frame. We tore that down.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. And who's the pastor of it?
Mr. Rush:	Don Lewis. He's from Madison Heights.
Ms. Brand:	From Madison Heights?
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
	(pause)
Ms. Brand:	And, um, did you know at all the Yancey family?
Mr. Rush:	Yancey in Esmont?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	No, the Yanceys left here before I got too-I know some of their relatives in Esmont, but not too many of them. I never knowed the Yanceys.
Ms. Brand:	But you knew about them?
Mr. Rush:	I heard about them, but I don't know them personally. I just know where the Yancey school is, and I know that that would be up on the Yancey's property, but that's all I know.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	So were there any other kind of social things around here? Like Masons, or Odd Fellows, or...
Mr. Rush:	Yeah, my brother's a mason, my grandson's a mason, uh... cousin... a lot of them are masons except me. Because I could have been one, but I don't think I-I'm getting too old for them things now. They said they would like me to be in them, but I just decided not to do it.
Ms. Brand:	You decided not to be.
Mr. Rush:	Not to be. Mm-hm, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	For any particular reason?
Mr. Rush:	Well, not particular reason, I just decided not to be. They'd probably want to go off, and I'd need to go somewhere, and the thing that they do-I might not feel like doing it, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	I don't like to join just for to say I'm in it. I like to be a part of everything that goes on.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	If I can't do my extra part in it, I want no part of it.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	So I knew not to be in it.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Probably you were busy enough.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah.
Ms. Brand:	With fourteen acres.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah, I had enough from taking care of that.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Mr. Rush:	Looking out now, I've got to cut grass this evening, I expect.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	You've got one of those ride-
	(tape cuts off; begin side 3)
Ms. Brand:	We're bring out a map and then having each person sort of write out where their house was, who were their neighbors, you know, where their friends were, where the school they went to-or different places, you know. So it's gonna be kind of like a social map, you know, instead of just whatever the state decided was important, but what was important to you. What were the places that were important to you.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	And, um... and then what we're going to try and do is sort of show-make a big map of what everybody said, and where the places were that people cared about. And we thought it would be nice to do it for-for the people that we interviewed, since-
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	You know, as you go along you mention things.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And... if that sounds alright, maybe we could do that.
Mr. Rush:	Sounds pretty good.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah?
Mr. Rush:	Uh-huh. Sounds pretty good.
Ms. Brand:	Alright.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And maybe also-if you have the patience, Ms. Rush-um, maybe I could also interview you specifically? If that's alright?
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. So, uh-probably I think maybe we can call that a day for now. So...
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Before-I don't want to tire anybody out.
Mr. Rush:	(laughs) No, I enjoy talking with you. I have to go to the bank now to deposit these people's money.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Mr. Rush:	Have to do that, then...
Ms. Brand:	Well, I love hearing the stories-just so interesting, you know! Sometimes you think you know a lot about something because you read the books, and then-
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah.
Ms. Brand:	You hear people's stories and it's really different
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah, mm-hm.
Mrs. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Mr. Rush:	Yes indeed, true.
Ms. Brand:	And even if it's not different, you know, you get more details that you never would have known.
Mr. Rush:	Yeah. A lot of things that people write about, they blot out so much and then you don't get the whole package, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Right. Or, you know, you don't get a sense of, like, what was it actually like, you know. What was a day like, you know. What did people care about. You know.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	You just kinda facts, facts, facts.
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah.
Ms. Brand:	So...
Mr. Rush:	It's true. Yes indeed.
Ms. Brand:	Well-I appreciate your time.
Mr. Rush:	(chuckles) Ok. You're welcome.
Ms. Brand:	And if anything-you know if you think of anything before I come around-you know, if something comes up that you remember that was-that you think was important that I didn't ask about just, you know, you can tell me those things. Because sometimes, you know, I might be completely missing something
Mr. Rush:	Oh yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Because I wouldn't even know to ask it.
Mr. Rush:	Mm-hm. Oh, yes indeed.
Ms. Brand:	And I'll make copies of all of this and give them to you, so you can have them.
Mr. Rush:	Ok, that's good.
Ms. Brand:	Alright, well thanks again.
Mr. Rush:	Yes indeed. You're welcome.
	tape cuts off; end of interview
Copyright Information: Virginia Center for Digital History, University of Virginia This interview is publically accessible Text and images © copyright 2001 by the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia.

Interview of William M. Rush on April 25, 2002, by Mieka Brand of the Race and Place Project. (Oral History)