Race & Place: Oral Histories

Interview of Joan and Theresa Woodfolk by Lois McKenzie and Kay Peaslee of the Ridge Street Oral History Project on February 24. 1995. (Oral History)
Biographical Information Joan and Theresa Woodfolk recall life on Ridge Street and the changes they have observed from the 1950s to the 1990s. In the interview the sisters describe the physical and social character of their neighborhood as they were growing up, portraying the people who formed their social network, sketching some of the commercial and residential buildings they frequented, and providing an in-depth discussion about the educational system in Charlottesville before and after desegregation. Towards the end of the interview, the Woodfolk sisters share their thoughts and feelings about the preservation of African American heritage and culture, and about how they would like to see black history commemorated in the future. Project Description Race and Place is a project of the Virginia Center for Digital History and the Carter G. Woodson Institute for Afro-American and African Studies. The goal of the project is to chronicle the life of African-Americans in the Charlottesville, Virginia area during the period of segregation. As part of this project we have conducted a series of interviews with current residents of the Charlottesville area who were alive during that period. The project has also incorporated oral interviews conducted by other Charlottesville institutions which cover the appropriate subject area. Notes About Our Transcription The transcripts represent what was said in the interview to the best of our ability. It is possible that some words, particularly names, have been misspelled. Where we did not feel sure of spellings we have indicated this by the use of the term 'phonetically' in parentheses following the word in question. Places where words were unclear are noted by 'inaudible'. We have made no attempt to correct mistakes in grammar.

Ms. McKenzie:	This is Lois McKenzie. We are at the home of the Woodfolks. This is February 24th, 755 Ridge Street. (Short pause, adjusting microphone) Well, here we go. Did your, how long has your family lived here in Charlottesville?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	We have lived here all of our lives.
Ms. McKenzie:	You both were born here?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Mm-hm.
Ms. McKenzie:	And your parents were born in Charlottesville?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	My - my mother she was born in Albemarle County which was - Yancey Mills.
Ms. McKenzie:	And how far back does your family go in this part of Virginia in Charlottesville?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I do not know exactly.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	We could probably get that information because I know they did -we did a family reunion several years ago and they traced our - our - our family tree back. So, we could probably get that information from our cousin who's the one who did the main - we could get that information from him.
Ms. McKenzie:	And how long has your family lived in the Ridge Street area?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Over - thirty some years.
Ms. McKenzie:	In this house?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No. We - we moved here in 19 - we spent our first Christmas in 1970 here in this house - in this house. We lived in - on Hartmans Mill Road, 264. That house is no longer there anymore. But the house was one - the - the mail side was on 264 which was Hartmans Mill Road and the side yard was on Ridge Street. So, do you know where the duplex is there down there on the corner?
Ms. McKenzie:	Yes.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well, that whole area was our house that's where our house was the big house that was there and that's what - that was where we used to live at.
Ms. McKenzie:	And why was it torn down? The city decided?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well... to build low income and some low income apartments and things and - and they did several houses - homes - several - a lot of homes that there were out here. Then at one point what happened was they start - there was a petition or something got up - or later on after we - my father had sold the house, wasn't that it Theresa? - to the city -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mm-hm, they had went into court, to stop.
Ms. McKenzie:	And it was too late?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well, we had - well, we had - my father, he had already decided to sell - but that was - that was a big house. That house was - it was - I loved that house.
Ms. McKenzie:	On the corner?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It was right on the corner.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Right. It was - we had like five bedrooms in that house. Large stucco house.
Ms. McKenzie:	Well, this seems to be a nice size place.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes, it is. We have a bedroom upstairs - but we had bedrooms the size of this living room.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	One of the bedrooms.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes, the size of this living room.
Ms. McKenzie:	How many bedrooms did you have?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	We have five bedrooms: one downstairs and four upstairs.
Ms. McKenzie:	Do you know a little bit about the history of this house? How long its been here, or when it was built?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	1905... and built by Germans... And they migrated to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	North Carolina, the family.
Ms. McKenzie:	After they sold this house?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	After they sold the house - and they would come here - several years they came here after, after we moved in and they probably did that before we moved in when the Reaves were here.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And, see, you all have that oral history, because the Reaves lived here in this house. This is the house Booker T. Reaves lived in - before we did.
Ms. McKenzie:	Oh.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	So, you already have that history on this house.
Ms. McKenzie:	Uh-huh. Have we interviewed them?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes, yes you did.
Ms. McKenzie:	Okay, okay, I didn't. Thank you.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	We bought this home in - That was in 1970.
Ms. McKenzie:	From Mr. Reaves.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	From Mr. Reaves.
Ms. McKenzie:	Yeah.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Booker T. Reaves. (Inaudible) Donna and Booker T. Reaves. Yes, you already have the oral history of that.
Ms. McKenzie:	Good.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	That will be good. I mean it's good that -
Ms. McKenzie:	Tracing several families through this house and through this neighborhood.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Right.
Ms. McKenzie:	Did you three live in the same house?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	No... Well, Joan was practically, she practically lives there.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I lived up the street - we lived at Eugine's house up at 710.
Ms. McKenzie:	Oh.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I used to see you and your friends walking through here in the morning.
Ms. McKenzie:	So, you live at 710?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I live at 710.
Ms. McKenzie:	Ridge Street.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I moved back to Ridge Street after moving off of Ridge Street. I'm back on Ridge Street -
Ms. McKenzie:	When did you move back?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Ah! (Inaudible) fourth grade. When did we move? Let's see... I guess it's like in 1980 - about 1980 I guess? Because I went to Piedmont. I went to Piedmont two years until I guess 1979-1980
Ms. McKenzie:	So this is a family neighborhood?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Mm-hm.
Ms. McKenzie:	You wanted to come back?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes, I love this street, love this street. This street I think is one of the prettiest streets in Charlottesville. Because I - I remember when we were younger and we used to have the Health Department up there on Main Street and - and coming across that bridge and you just looking down - looking down Ridge Street. It just reminded you, like you were in a tunnel with trees, sort of meeting, you know, it just reminded you of a tunnel. It just was always beautiful.
Ms. McKenzie:	Do you still think there's still a sense of neighborhood here on Ridge Street? A sense of community?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I do.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I think so, especially for people that are still here -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	- that are still here, you know, even though, you know, you might not visit them, but you're always get a wave, and you know, you still feel good about living here. That's my mother - (tape paused temporarily). (Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Okay it's Hartman's Mill Road. (Inaudible) - the house next to it - where was it - (Inaudible) -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Payne's house.
Ms. McKenzie:	Payne's house?
Ms. Elizabeth Woodfolk:	Well it's still the Payne home place.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And that's before we were born.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	My mother and father and my brother. Was it, Jimmy?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yeah our oldest brother. They lived down on Hartman's Road.
Ms. McKenzie:	And then moved to Hartman's Mill? The corner of Hartman's Mill and -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	No. It was - we ended up on Lee Street.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Is that where we went next?
Ms. McKenzie:	Where you all went next?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Right at the Gospel Hill. We ended up on Gospel Hill. And I know you're - quite sure that you've heard some history about that?
Ms. McKenzie:	Oh yeah, sure.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well that's where we lived at, over there on Gospel Hill.
Ms. Peaslee:	Where is Gospel Hill?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Where the hospital is, the new hospital is.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Right where the new hospital is. The new hospital. That was Gospel Hill.
Ms. McKenzie:	Before the neighborhood, decimated by progress-
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Right, right. And that was such a beautiful sight, because you were up on this hill and you could see - see the hospital and down on - on what do they call that road? - Jefferson Park, right?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yeah, yeah.
Ms. McKenzie:	Did you both go to High School here in Charlottesville then?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mm-hm. I graduated from Lane High School.
Ms. McKenzie:	From Lane.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And I graduated - I graduated from Burley. And that was - we were not integrated.
Ms. McKenzie:	That's right. It was still a school for African-Americans?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It was still - yes. And we had integration happen - as far as teacher-wise - I think we were in the 10th grade and we had maybe five teachers come in. But it was not integrated student-body wise.
Ms. McKenzie:	Right. The white teachers started to come in.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	And then when did - Did you have the choice to go to a school that was integrated? Or did that happen by the -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No. It was still closed down in '67. So we - we - I guess, no we went to Burley. I don't know if it was a choice, but -
Ms. McKenzie:	You didn't have a choice at that point in time?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Because that's the way - I think the way the section was set up. So you had to go within - because I know Donald and them went to Lane. They integrated Lane High School, but I don't know -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I think probably -
Ms. McKenzie:	(Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No. I was talking about Donald Martin, and they one of the neighbors was one of the Martin boys and the Paynes integrated Lane High School, which was before we went. But, I just - I don't know whether it was the way it was set up where - whether we had the choice to go? I can't remember -
Ms. McKenzie:	Well, we talked to Luella Gohaner-Lyles today -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Right.
Ms. McKenzie:	- and apparently at her - she must be just a little younger?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No. We both are the same age.
Ms. McKenzie:	Same age?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	We went to the same school.
Ms. McKenzie:	All right. She said that she and her family talked it over and she decided to stay at the African-American -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It must have - yes. We must have had that choice.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	You could have gone at your last year, probably.
Ms. McKenzie:	Your last year you could have gone? Okay.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	But then you're just a little younger?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mm-hm. So I went to -
Ms. McKenzie:	To Lane.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. I enjoyed - I mean I tell my sisters that I just, you know, that I just appreciated - I mean your teachers were your extended family there, you know. And they cared about you. This is at Burley. And they, you know, they were your parents.
Ms. McKenzie:	It was an extended family?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It was an extended family that the neighborhood also had -
Ms. McKenzie:	The African proverb of (Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. Hi Jimmy! This is my brother Jimmy and he -
	(tape paused)
Ms. Peaslee:	I remember how this neighborhood looked years ago, because we've had information that suggests that it was really very beautiful.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	It was. I tell you. Because I remember walking home from school and, especially in the spring time of the year when the trees were budding, flowers blooming and stuff and the grass was green. It was almost like looking through a kaleidoscope. I mean that's how pretty it was. And I just enjoyed this street. And it's still a beautiful street. I still see it the same way. You know? It's a beautiful street.
Ms. McKenzie:	It's changed considerably.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It has, especially with the new development and -
Ms. McKenzie:	And the additional low income housing there -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Right.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. And the - just the - the tearing down of a lot of the historical homes that were here, and cutting up - cutting off - cutting the street up the way the city did. I mean that is - that had been one - and I think, to me, that just did a lot of - just destroyed -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	It just destroyed -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	They just destroyed - it just cut - it just put us back in this hole. You know?
Ms. McKenzie:	Cut you off.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Cut you off. And - and even when this - I remember street sweepers and the man that used to pick up this street, the trash in the street, you know? And even those services stopped existing now, you know? The street sweeper doesn't -
Ms. McKenzie:	It doesn't come up here any more?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	The street sweeper don't come to this area any more. I think we've seen - I've seen the street sweeper out here maybe once or twice in many years.
Ms. McKenzie:	Because he was down on the other part of Ridge Street. It was either this morning or yesterday morning. Sweeping some water along the side of it.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Very, very - no. It's not a regular thing. And I can remember when it was a regular thing, where he would come and sweep the street. You would see them, where they - it's once in every - every now and then you will see the street sweeper.
Ms. McKenzie:	Have many of the families that you grew up with in the Ridge Community stayed here? Are some of your childhood friends still here in the area?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well Pinky's mother is still here, and Ms. Williams is still here. The Swifts are still here. Mrs. Carter, you know.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Down on -.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Down on -
Ms. McKenzie:	Irma Carter?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Oh no. Not Ms. Irma Carter.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Not Ms. Irma Carter, she's -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mrs. Carter that - um -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Virginia Carter.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	That worked in the school system. Her family is still down -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And you all have an oral history of her down there. Yes. Let's see who else. And Mrs. Dawson and -
Ms. McKenzie:	Now we've not interviewed -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	You all haven't interviewed her?
Ms. McKenzie:	Not at this time. She's so elderly, but we have an earlier interview with her that she did with somebody. And we're using that one. And she's quite elderly. Isn't she over 100?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No. Not Ms. Dawson, no. She was - I'm sure she would love to talk to you all.
Ms. McKenzie:	(Inaudible)
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	(Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Okay. Oh, and also someone who has several homes on this area is Mrs. Irene Allen. She doesn't live here any longer, but she lives in Washington. Her daughter lives in Washington. And that's where she lives at now too. She stays with her. She owns several pieces of property out here on Ridge Street and this is - her home place is right up on Ridge Street, so she's another person that you all might want to -
Ms. McKenzie:	At some point. We're kind of running out of time.
Ms. Peaslee:	But she lives in Washington?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. But she still owns property out here.
Ms. Peaslee:	On this street?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. She still owns homes up there. The lady that lives next door to Mrs. Brown. Judy Brown's mother. Mrs Allen owns those houses on the corner. She never sold those homes. She still owns them.
Ms. McKenzie:	What sort of things did you all, you and your friends do as you were children growing up? What were your -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Our (Inaudible), like Diane, my sister.
Ms. McKenzie:	Your sister Diane?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	She's a year younger than I am.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It's seven children total.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	And then Carolyn - most of us, we sort of like hang together. And like, we used to play marbles. We would play marbles with the kids down the street. We would go to the creek and catch tadpoles and go pretend hunting rabbits, and just fun things like that.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It used to be the Nemos, we used to go down toMr. Nemo's who used to be at the end of - the back end of Hartman's Mill but he had a lot of land and you all used to go down there and fool with those horses.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	No. It wasn't that. That was Mr. Henley. He had horses. I mean we used to go and you know, just play with the horses. You know, did fun things. We didn't get into -
Ms. McKenzie:	Now who was Mr. Nemo?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	He owns the property - he's no longer living, but it's - I think some caterers have that land down that they - these two women I think, lives up there in a - it's just sort of mid-way down, Hartman Mill Road and you had to go up like a little road, and then back up in there.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	We used to just go -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Just play.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	- just go through the woods and play and just - we just did fun things.
Ms. McKenzie:	You had a fun childhood?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. Yes. Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	What - was your experience on Ridge Street basically with African-Americans? There wasn't much in the way of white families -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Oh, yes. Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	- although there were a few white families (Inaudible)
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mr. Updike.
Ms. McKenzie:	Yes. And old Mr. Harmon?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. I'm trying to think who else was there.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	And it was a family that lived right down there where George Ford lives now. The little house that sits back over in there. I forget that family.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	What is that man's name. Because he had a daughter. He died and then the wife died, and the daughter ended up -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I cannot think of the people.
	(To Jimmy)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Jimmy! What's the name of the family that owned the house that George Ford owns now? The family that used to live down there?
Mr. Jimmy Woodfolk:	Pace.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mr. Pace. Yeah the Paces lived in that home. Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	So you've seen Charlottesville change quite a bit over the years?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Mm-hm.
Ms. McKenzie:	From a time when you had a happy childhood here on Ridge Street running through the woods and catching tadpoles to -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And also just the businesses up on Vinegar Hill where - that was a thriving community in itself, because we went to Jefferson School and just coming home from school and stopping at Mr. Andrews's store, and -
Ms. McKenzie:	Did you shop regularly there?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Oh, yes. We used to go up there all the time and get little - little kids and candy and, you know, and those type things.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I just remember that whole area.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Mr. Allen's store, which used to be off here down by - I forget which street it is. Is that First Street or something? That housing project down there where Mr. Allen's store -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Down in the Third Street area. Where there was a store -
Ms. McKenzie:	So there were a lot of little neighborhoods there?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	A lot, yes.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes, just a whole community.
Ms. McKenzie:	The were all taken down when (Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. Well forced -- you know, a lot of those places where the owners were white, of course, they didn't fix the property up. So if they didn't fix the property up, they condemned them. So along comes -
Ms. McKenzie:	Along comes the (Inaudible)
Ms. Peaslee:	(Inaudible) along Ridge Street?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well, Vinegar Hill, which was -
Ms. McKenzie:	On Vinegar Hill? You mean the properties on Vinegar Hill were owned by white people?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I think some of the properties - you might want to check and make sure - but from what I understand that, the people rented from some of those people over there. So they didn't - they didn't know, when they found out - I guess when the city was going to come along, they didn't have to fix the property up.
Ms. McKenzie:	And if it was condemned, they never really paid for their property?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I have no idea. But some of the people you might want to talk to, I think you can talk to Mr. Johnson.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Oh yes. Mr. Johnson. He's right on -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. Or Wyatt Johnson.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	- on Ridge Street. (Inaudible) On Ridge Street, that's Wyatt Johnson. Because had a home over there.
Ms. McKenzie:	Wyatt Johnson?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mm-hm. I mean he could tell you a lot of history of - he can tell you.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	He knows the history of Vinegar Hill.
Ms. McKenzie:	Oh. That's a good idea.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. So, before you all go I'll get his name - I'll get his name down and number.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	He would be a great person to talk to. Like I say, he lived there.
Ms. Peaslee:	Mr. Johnson?
Ms. McKenzie:	Now is he an Afro-American?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mm-hm.
Ms. McKenzie:	Did you - which church do you go to?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Mount Zion.
Ms. McKenzie:	Mount Zion. Oh. So are you going to be - can you go on Saturday, March 4th to the neighborhood - the Ridge Street Program?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. I'll go - if I have to -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	(Inaudible) Mr. Truehart (Phonetically), he was a, was it uncle?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. Great-great-uncle. Yes. He was our great grandmother's brother. And he was like the superintendent of the Sunday School up there for like forty years. So - and that was at Mount Zion. Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	Do you have any history at all that goes back to the founding of with Mount Zion, with your family and all?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	No.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I have a book on Mount Zion. And it tells some history about Mr. Truehart. I do have a book at the house. It was dated, like, I think it was 1950 something. And it has - it gave - it gives - so I have that. I do have that book at home. I can -
Ms. McKenzie:	Would you let us see it?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Sure.
Ms. McKenzie:	Great. Do you have something you'd like to ask them?
Ms. Peaslee:	Yes. After the schools were desegregated, what were the changes that occurred in the community, after 1967?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well, (Chuckle). well I think what happened was, you know, you were - before it was more of a knit community because people were - they had to support each other.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Basically (Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	(Inaudible) because you couldn't buy any place else.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Couldn't go to school.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And then, so the breakdown a lot of times happened (Inaudible) - when that did happen that people went out and started buying from other people out of the neighborhood and out of the - who do you think Theresa? Because of desegregation. You know, when it became, you were able to buy anything that you wanted. I think that the breakdown happened when -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	You know I agree with Joan, you know, it was good in one way and then it was bad in another because a lot of people who had little businesses and stuff, you know, like Joan said, when people are able to go out, you know -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	- out from them, that was a lot of money that was, you know, that it was filtered out from the community. And it was, you know, that unity that you had then -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	It was lost.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yeah, it was lost.
Ms. Peaslee:	Your family - we've been told that there were some families who really didn't support the efforts to desegregate the schools because they felt it was not really good for community. How did - what was the attitude of your family towards the people like Mr. Ferguson, who were so active in desegregation?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I think that - okay, like Mr. Williams came down and talked to my mother and father about, you know, for the - well Diane, which is a year younger than I am and let's see, it was Cindy and Carolyn. They went to Johnson School. And at that time, I think they could have went - who was it? Jefferson?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. But they went to -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	But they went to Johnson. And I - my mother, she was all, you know, they were for it.
Ms. McKenzie:	Johnson was a white school?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Right. Uh-huh.
Ms. McKenzie:	Or it was an integrated school?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	During that time, I think they just like started.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	They took a few children from the area that were - I guess they were asking whether they wanted to do it.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I think they - I can't really -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And I can't remember back that far, but I remember something about that. And I know they went to -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. They went to Johnson school. And it was a -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	- to Johnson School.
Ms. Peaslee:	This was your younger -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	It was - yes. She was a year younger than I am. Diane and Carolyn. I think just Diane and Carolyn. And I think Mr. Williams might know a little bit about that because he was the one that talked to my parents about letting my, you know, about letting my, my two sisters asking, you know, about them going to Johnson School.
Ms. McKenzie:	That's Johnson School that's over by Johnson Village on Cherry Avenue?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. On Cherry Avenue. But, our parents, you know, we never had a problem with that and, you know, we were for it.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	You know, it wasn't something we were angry against Mr. Ferguson or any other activist who was doing something. No, that was never perceived in our family.
Ms. Peaslee:	Wasn't there a campaign to go door to door to ask people to enroll their children in the white schools so that they would desegregate the schools that way? Do you remember that at all?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I don't remember it.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I don't remember.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And it might have happened, but I - I don't remember how it was done. I really don't.
Ms. McKenzie:	Today, in 1995, what is your opinion of how things are on Ridge Street as far as race relations and how the community - and how people get along with each other? Are you happy with the way things are now, or are you concerned about some aspects of things today?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I think it's - I don't think it's anything with the people within the community that are - that you really need to really worry about. I think it's the other, outside, everything else that's, that's sort of - that, you know, not -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	That has -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	- that has anything to do with trying to keep the neighborhood up.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	You see it has to have a -
Ms. Peaslee:	What do you think are the things that threaten the community here on Ridge Street? What would you say? Is it development? Is it automobile traffic?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I think you're hitting a lot of things. And just in general, in the city, the government here in Charlottesville. You know?
Ms. McKenzie:	Has neglected this area.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Right.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Neglected this area and it's a constant thing when you feel that -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	You're almost like begging.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	- that you're begging for whatever thing if need be for your area. You know, it's just like you're overlooked for so many things and, yes, they cut the street up, yes, they pushed us back in a hole. And - and - but they've got to realize that people here in this street, we're tax payers. We're just as much a part of this community as any other street around here whether it be Jefferson Park, whether it be Park Street. I mean, you sit down and you think about history, you know, there's a lot of history on Ridge Street, up out Ridge Street that -
Ms. McKenzie:	There's as much history here as there is anywhere else.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	As anywhere else. And when they talk about historical areas, you know, Ridge Street doesn't even come within the realm or even in the - in the smoke of the city officials or the city as far as our history. And it's nice that you're talking about preserving some things, but I mean this should be just natural things, when this area should be naturally filtered in into the city anyway, because we are a part of the city. But it hasn't been. And it hasn't been for many years. You know? Since the people who owned the shops and who moved out.
Ms. McKenzie:	Until - when the large - when the wealthier white people moved out, basically?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Right. Right. And it was almost like, forgotten. The forgotten - like we're the forgotten area.
Ms. McKenzie:	And then they keep making changes, none of which are all that good?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	No.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Making changes to appease other areas, but yet and still not recognizing this area for anything else but a way to come through here, a way to add more congestion to get other places. Then that - but those are the kinds of things that the city is doing to Ridge Street. It's not for Ridge Street. It's for the good of the city.
Ms. McKenzie:	How do you feel about the Meadowcreek Parkway? Have you gotten involved in that at all?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Well the - they - the Ridge Street Neighborhood Association, we went down and spoke with them. And we also went down there the other night and spoke about this other thing about widening the Ridge Street and - almost they are talking about like putting three lanes out here. Well this is another suggestion that this - I forget this person's name who did this feasibility study, I guess that's what you call it.
Ms. McKenzie:	(Inaudible) - at the hearing at the Albemarle county building?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No. Not that one. This one was down at City Hall down at the Planning Commission.
Ms. McKenzie:	(Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I mean, but it - that's - when it's like I said, for the wealth of some other area, then everything is okay, to hit Ridge Street. But, you know, this needs to happen on a regular basis, not just when it's going to be economically okay for some other area, to go through Ridge Street, to use Ridge Street. I mean this street has just been abused for the use for other areas, and it's time that they need to stop and not abuse it. I mean if they're going to do something, do it for Ridge Street, and not to be used to do something, to use as a vehicle to go other places.
Ms. Peaslee:	Okay, what do you think can be done about helping and preserving Ridge Street? For example, are there political solutions? What -
	TAPE CHANGES
Ms. Peaslee:	- feel represents your interests?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	(Inaudible) And I wouldn't just go and pick on one particular person, because number one, everybody on City Council is elected by the people, and you shouldn't feel that you have to pick out one particular person that you have to have an ally with. I mean those people are elected officials to serve everybody, and not for just a choice of you.
Ms. Peaslee:	Well does that mean that you would like a system of city government where we elected people from wards instead of at large? If we elect all of our City Councillors at large, in some places, they have a system of electing them like they do in the county. They elect them from districts. But have - do you favor electing people to City Council from wards?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	I really don't have any comment about that. But I feel that when you elect city officials for anything, they're supposed to be there to serve the whole, and look at it as, you know, and nobody should have to - feel like they have to have - be privileged or have special privileges. It should be an equality thing, which it has not been. But - especially African-American neighborhoods. That's, that's a fact. And that's - anywhere you look, they - you want to weigh the scale, how much it - we're less, like when it comes to anything. And it shouldn't be that way.
Ms. McKenzie:	Less -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Less of anything. Less of anything. We should be equal all the way around.
Ms. McKenzie:	Less services and more low income housing (Inaudible)
	(Inaudible)
Ms. McKenzie:	(Inaudible) - all the African American neighborhoods. It's not scattered throughout the city.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No, no. And they say they do scatter housing, and it's not people up in arms about not wanting people to have a place to live. Because that's crazy. I mean, all you got to do is go look at what's happened in the area and - so they could say that - you know, so whey they make a statement like that it's totally wrong. No one's against that. It's just that, why do you always feel that whatever happens in - the black neighborhoods become the dumping ground for everything. We've become the dumping ground - but at some point - we never become anything but dumping grounds for a lot of that.
Ms. McKenzie:	You don't get any of the benefits that the other neighborhoods do.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And it shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't be that way. And it - like I say, the facts speak for theirself.
Ms. Peaslee:	Well do you have any hope then - I mean are you pessimistic or optimistic?
Ms. McKenzie:	She asks the tough questions.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	(Laughter) Well I, you know, people, the neighborhood is coming around - people are taking a more interest in the neighborhood. So, yes. And the -(Inaudible)
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	And the thing about it is, we as a people don't - we don't expect any handouts from nobody. From nobody. Because, you know, we can do - we can do it ourselves. But, all we want is if it's going to be handouts given and they're given to everybody else, why not give it to the black (Inaudible) and make it equal? Everybody wants an equal share of everything.
Ms. Peaslee:	Could you be more specific? For example, Mr. Cox has bought the old Ferguson house. Do you think that's going to helpthe neighborhood?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I mean it's nice seeing families coming in and coming back.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	Well he certainly seems to have a knack for bringing people together, as far as - it seems - the Ridge Street Neighborhood Association seems to have - Do you like the neighborhood association?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	As a matter of fact I'm Vice President.
Ms. McKenzie:	(Laughter) There we go. Did it - it kind of lapsed for a while, didn't it? Did the neighborhood association -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes.
Ms. McKenzie:	- was it always here? Was it - or did it just kind of begin - (Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Again, yes. Because I remember when Mrs. Poindexter, she's dead now, she - she used to be an active member of the Ridge Street Association. Then Mrs. Matalin (Phonetically). She also was an active member. It's coming around.
Ms. Peaslee:	Inaudible - could you have done more about this subsidized housing that was built down the street from you?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	(Inaudible) - to tell you the truth that probably wouldn't have stopped them.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I don't know. But I just think - because it was neighbors getting together and going into those meetings and stuff like that and when they -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Those things were all - they were all - I mean it was decided already. I mean no matter what - no matter whatever suggestions, what - it was almost like the gavel had went (makes noise of a gavel hitting the bench). You know? So whatever was decided was decided.
Ms. McKenzie:	And by the time the neighborhood was really aware of what was going on, it was too late? Apparently? No?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. Yes. That's - yes.
Ms. Peaslee:	Were you aware of what was going on?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	You know, I remember when Mr. (Inaudible), that was before he became in office he had called and asked, you know, what about a low income apartment building put out here. And, because I answered the phone that day, and I was saying, you know, it's nice, I said somebody have to have somewhere to live. It's nice to have - I said, but we have enough out here. We have First Street developing down there, and we have Oakridge. And I just told him, I said, I just think we have enough out here. Because I didn't realize that it was going to be one put out here. So.
Ms. Peaslee:	Well if you had your druthers about what happens to Ridge Street, what are the things that you would hope for specifically? For example, would you like to get rid of that fast food place up on the corner there?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	What fast food place?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	You mean the Ridge Street Market?
Ms. Peaslee:	Yes. There - it's across from the place - that beautiful old red brick house.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Oh, you're talking about (Inaudible)
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Oh it's 410Ridge Street. You're talking about right there where Mr. Fleming has his -
Ms. Peaslee:	Yes.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	You know that house - I remember when it was a - what was it, a Lucky Seven or 7-Eleven. I remember - and I can't really even remember who was there before that. But -
Ms. Peaslee:	There's - in your - within your memory, there's always been a store there?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I'm not quite sure.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	No. It was a house. It was a house there, I think, at one time. But I can't remember -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	But I can't really remember what, you know, and I - but it just -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Would have been nice if it was a market owned by an African-American person. Or we have within this neighborhood, like a - you know, a - because I remember going through - like Mrs. Fleming, when she had her store down here, there was a store right down here where this white apartment is, right next door to Mrs. Brown. Mrs. Fleming owned that. It was a little store there. That was a store at one point.
Ms. Peaslee:	So if there were some African-American owned businesses in the area -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Yes. And, you know, yes. You know, or either some type of a cultural center or something within the - the - the area.
Ms. Peaslee:	(Inaudible) if any old buildings become available, instead of turning them into apartments or tearing them down - perhaps converting them into something (Inaudible) for the community.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes. It would be nice to -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Into some type of business.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yeah a community thing.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And I know they're building a - a building down there - down here in the park when that gets done, but that's not the - that's not the same thing. That wouldn't even have the same meaning as a cultural center within the community.
Ms. Peaslee:	You mean down at Tonsler Park, would that be?
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Right. Right. They are going to do another building. And they're going to have some, you know, there will be a space in there for things, but it's - having a cultural center within the community is - I mean that's not the same thing. The park is a different thing.
Ms. Peaslee:	I've heard that Mount Zion at some point (Inaudible) Ridge Street, kind of hemmed in there by, whatever was hemming it in, (Inaudible) - and the possibility of that building being converted into a bigger (Inaudible) cultural center
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	It was - I think at one point that they were talking about that. That was when - they did an article some time ago. Some - I think it was a couple of years ago when they first talked about the church coming up for sale that would (Inaudible) thought it would be a nice cultural center.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	No, not the church. (Inaudible)
Ms. McKenzie:	To keep to use them for something else.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	(Inaudible) when the article came up about Mount Zion, maybe they talked about them moving or something. It was an article in the paper and somebody was saying - making some suggestions that it would be a nice, either like a museum - I think it was a museum or a cultural - something to the effect - it was in the Observer, I believe, if I can remember. I can't remember.
Ms. McKenzie:	For the African-American community?
Ms. Peaslee:	Would you like to have a cultural center that is accessible to you here on Ridge Street? Do you have any sort of a community center here?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	I'll tell you. It - it really would be nice where you could have a place in a neighborhood where the history of black people who have - who have - who are still, you know, making a mark in the community, making a difference in the community and even the ones who are dead and gone, if people like that just, you know, where -
Ms. Peaslee:	They're recognized.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Yes, recognized that - especially for the young kids, to give them something that -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Something - there's something that these young people can put their hands on. They need something that -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	With Charlottesville it's -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Where's our connection with Charlottesville, you know?
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	A few people know just, you know, the history and stuff. But it needs to be put out there where people - even people from out of town, that come in, you know, could go and visit where they have some kind of black historic - history of people who live here in Charlottesville. It's, yeah, it would be really nice.
Ms. Peaslee:	(Inaudible) said that there used to be so many more role models in the African-American Community when the small businesses were run by the (Inaudible)
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	Mm-hm, that's right. Yes.
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	And things that connect you, because I remember when a child, you know, coming on Vinegar Hill and seeing all these businesses owned by -
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	We used to go down - like go to the movies on Sundays and leave the movies and stop into some of the little stores -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	and buy comic books and things like that, it's just, you know, say, God, you know, but you know as children, you had no really sense of what you - what you had, until that now as an adult you see what's gone and what is not here now. Now you have - you can say that. And -
Ms. Peaslee:	But your overwhelming feeling is a sense of loss, in a sense for the comm -(Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	Oh. It has. It has. It has. And there's nothing that really says that we even exist here, what is there, now?
Ms. McKenzie:	A street that runs through.
A:	(Inaudible) - a street, I mean Woodfolk Lane is named after our family, you know, but there's nothing that can ever - but it's nothing that - what can you visibly say that you say - where's the community? And where's the community that the African-Americans, you know, where's the sense -
Ms. McKenzie:	(Inaudible)
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	- well where's the sense of anything? There's nothing that you can just visibly put your hands on. Oh yeah, you can say Tonsler Park or that, but, you know, but what is there physically that you can see? The Omni. Over all that, there's nothing but a hill of buildings.
Ms. Theresa Woodfolk:	(Inaudible)
Ms. McKenzie:	I understand the Albemarle County Historical Society has - is talking about some plans with, to work with the Ridge Street Neighborhood Association. To perhaps develop, um an exhibit -
Ms. Joan Woodfolk:	(Inaudible)
Ms. McKenzie:	- an exhibit at the county historical society in downtown Charlottesville next Spring on the African American community in Charlottesville. It would be nice if that were to happen.
Ms. Peaslee:	They did one on the Jews. Did you, did you see that? That was really good. If they could do something like that for the African American community too -
Ms. McKenzie:	Do you have anything else that you'd like to say? Or we're taking up your time here. I know you've been busy today. Feelings or reminisences? I think you've, I think you've been very forthright with us. Do you have any final questions?
Ms. Peaslee:	Thank you very much.
	(Thereupon this interview was concluded.)
Copyright Information: Virginia Center for Digital History, University of Virginia This interview is publically accessible Text and images © copyright 2001 by the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia.

Interview of Joan and Theresa Woodfolk by Lois McKenzie and Kay Peaslee of the Ridge Street Oral History Project on February 24. 1995. (Oral History)