Race & Place: Oral Histories

Interview of Rosa Agee on September 27, 2001 and October 4, 2001, by Mieka Brand and Sarah Lawrence of the Race and Place Project. (Oral History)
Biographical Information Rosa Agee, who was born in Goochland County in 1939, has been living in Esmont since 1942 or 1943. Discussing aspects of her life from the time she was born to when the interview took place, Ms. Agee remembers the negative effects of poverty and disease throughout her life, but discusses also pleasant memories such as cooking pinto beans at the small schoolhouse, going to work with her mother (who was hired as a domestic by local white families), the tradition of visiting family and neighbors and exchanging food during Christmas, and playing ball with her siblings and neighbors. Project Description Race and Place is a project of the Virginia Center for Digital History and the Carter G. Woodson Institute for Afro-American and African Studies. The goal of the project is to chronicle the life of African-Americans in the Charlottesville, Virginia area during the period of segregation. As part of this project we have conducted a series of interviews with current residents of the Charlottesville area who were alive during that period. The project has also incorporated oral interviews conducted by other Charlottesville institutions which cover the appropriate subject area. Notes About Our Transcription The transcripts represent what was said in the interview to the best of our ability. It is possible that some words, particularly names, have been misspelled. Where we did not feel sure of spellings we have indicated this by the use of the term 'phonetically' in parentheses following the word in question. Places where words were unclear are noted by 'inaudible'. Brackets have been used to indicate additions made to the text upon review by the interviewee. We have made no attempt to correct mistakes in grammar.

Ms. Brand:	Ok. Lets just make sure... Alright.
Ms. Lawrence:	I'm just gonna keep some notes for myself.
Ms. Agee:	Ok. What do you want to ask me?
Ms. Lawrence:	Well, Mieka's gonna ask you a whole series of general questions to begin with.
Ms. Brand:	So, first of all, we're sitting here at the Esmont Senior Center and... the interviewers are Sarah Lawrence and Mieka Brand, and we're speaking to...
Ms. Agee:	Rosa Agee.
Ms. Brand:	Rosa Agee. So that's (spells out) R-O-S-A, right?
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. (spells out) A-G-E-E
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And you were born in Esmont?
Ms. Agee:	No, I wasn't born in Esmont. I was born in Goochland County and moved up this way...
Ms. Brand:	In what county?
Ms. Agee:	Goochland.
Ms. Brand:	Goochland.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And how... go ahead.
Ms. Agee:	I moved up here with my family from down there - my mother and father.
Ms. Brand:	How old were you when you moved?...
Ms. Agee:	Oh, I was about... about 3 or 4.
Ms. Brand:	Do you know why you moved here?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, my father was looking for work, and my mother's father was sick so we came up here.
Ms. Brand:	He was from here?... he was here?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, he was from here. My mother was from here. And they came back up here looking for work.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Lawrence:	And her father was sick, you said?...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, my mother's father was sick.
Ms. Brand:	So your mother moved down to Goochland County?
Ms. Agee:	No, she moved back up here to Virginia.
Ms. Brand:	But she was from here, and she moved down to Goochland...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Do you know why she moved there?
Ms. Agee:	Well, see, after they got married... this was, you know, after they got married they moved down... and then they moved back up here when he was seeking for work.
Ms. Brand:	What kind of work did he do?
Ms. Agee:	He was a mailman, and then he was a carpenter, and my mother - she helped take care of my father once she came up here.
Ms. Brand:	Oh she did.
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm. And then my father, he left. And I never saw him until I went back to Goochland when he came to visit down that way. He didn't ever come back up this way. And he came - I was visiting him down in Goochland. And then after that we moved, I moved up here to Esmont. After I got married, I moved, you know, to Esmont.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, so you moved back to Esmont.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I moved up here to Esmont, because I was in Keene, right down by...
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. Right down there. And I moved to Esmont, and I went to Esmont school, also.
Ms. Brand:	Ok
Ms. Agee:	I went to Esmont school from about - what grade was it? - I think it was like about... I know I was in the fifth grade, but -
Ms. Brand:	That's when you started?
Ms. Agee:	No, I started at a earlier age, about in the third - I think the third grade, because I went to school also in Glendale, and I did - Keene
Ms. Brand:	Before?..
Ms. Agee:	Yes, before.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, Glendale was the name of the school in Keene?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, Glendale School.
Ms. Brand:	So you went there for first and second grade.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, for something like the first couple...
Ms. Brand:	Something like that.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. Then I went to, came up to Esmont School and stayed until - from the fifth grade. And then I went to the school here, I went to Burley High School.
Ms. Brand:	To Burley.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. I went to Burley High School. But the teachers - I remember a teacher named Mrs. - Mrs. - oh, God - what was the teacher's name? [laughs] Mrs. - um -
Ms. Brand:	It wasn't Yancey, was it?
Ms. Agee:	No, no...
Ms. Lawrence:	It'll come to you...
Ms. Agee:	I'm sorry.
	[laughter]
Ms. Brand:	That's alright - it's just cause it's on the spot, you know. That's what happens.
Ms. Agee:	yeah... um... Ms. Price.
Ms. Lawrence:	Aahhh...
Ms. Brand:	Price, alright.
Ms. Agee:	Ms. Price. Ms. Price would have us to come in in the morning, you know, we'd have a big fire in a hot metal stove...
Ms. Lawrence:	Mmm...
Ms. Brand:	Oh!
Ms. Agee:	And we'd make fire, and all of us stand around, and get warm, and then we would - and whoever got there first after we made fire - she'd have us put beans on it. Pinto beans on the stove and we'll have that for lunch!
Ms. Lawrence:	Wow. So it's cooked the whole way through the morning.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, yeah - she would start it early in the morning, and...
Ms. Brand:	Mm. So you could smell it all day...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, yeah.
Ms. Lawrence:	[laughs]
Ms. Agee:	But then we'd have those, and we'd go out for recess... nice old days...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah? Nice old days?
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm.
	[pause]
Ms. Brand:	And then you went to Burley.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I went to Burley.
Ms. Brand:	Everyone did?
Ms. Agee:	No, I don't recall if everyone, but I know I went there after - I went there, like, about the eight grade, I think. Something like the eighth grade. And graduated from there.
Ms. Brand:	And what from there?
Ms. Agee:	I graduated from Burley.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, alright.
Ms. Agee:	In 193... 1959.
Ms. Lawrence:	And that was 8th grade.
Ms. Agee:	No, that was - we graduated in 1959.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	I graduated from 8th grade in 19- 59..
Ms. Brand:	Ok. Was Albemarle Training School still open then?
Ms. Agee:	Albemarle Training School?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, I thought that's where a lot of people went... to school.
Ms. Agee:	Uh... you mean Albemarle High School?
Ms. Brand:	No, Training School on Rio Road.
Ms. Agee:	Oh, it probably was, but I didn't...
Ms. Brand:	I guess that was not.
Ms. Agee:	I don't think so.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. So, if you don't mind my asking... when were you born?
Ms. Agee:	1939, July the 2nd 1939.
Ms. Brand:	And did you have any brothers and sisters?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. I had two brothers, and three sisters. And - go ahead.
Ms. Brand:	No, you go ahead.
Ms. Agee:	And I was... there was a youngest brother, a oldest brother, and a younger sister. She died, but I have one sister living. Two sisters dead, and one living.
Ms. Brand:	Today.
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm. And two brothers living.
Ms. Lawrence:	Where were you in the line of them?
Ms. Agee:	I was... third?
Ms. Brand:	Third from the top?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. My oldest sister... wait a minute - hold it, hold it... [laughs] my oldest sister; my brother; my sister... I was the fourth child.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm. And what are their names?
Ms. Agee:	My oldest sister was named Willie Mae.
Ms. Brand:	Willie Mae?
Ms. Agee:	(spells out) Willie, W-I-L-L-A M-A-E; and James William.
Meika Brand:	James William?
Ms. Agee:	Um-hmm. And Luella (spells out) L-O-U-E-L-L-A...
Ms. Brand:	oh! That's not Luella... Gohaner Lyles?...
Ms. Agee:	Uh-uh [no] - and I come between there, and then...
Ms. Brand:	You have a middle name?
Ms. Agee:	Lee. And Barbara Anne.
Ms. Brand:	with a 'E' in the end?
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm. I missed one... and then Charles in between.
Ms. Brand:	In between?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Charles...
Ms. Agee:	Charles Edward.
Ms. Brand:	Edwin.
Ms. Agee:	Edward - EdwARD. [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Ms. Agee:	And Barbara Anne... and that's it.
Ms. Brand:	1-2-3-4-5-6. That's it.
Ms. Agee:	That's it.
Ms. Brand:	And is Agee - is that your maiden name?
Ms. Agee:	No, that's my married name. Jackson was my maiden name.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And - just all these technical things - what are your parents names?
Ms. Agee:	Camilla Jackson.
Ms. Brand:	That was her married name?
Ms. Agee:	That's his name.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Ms. Agee:	(spells out) C-A-M-I-L-L-A, I think that's - Camillo Jackson.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. That's your father.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. And Lora, (spells out) L-O-R-A, Lucy Jane.
Ms. Brand:	Lucy James?...
Ms. Agee:	Jane.
Ms. Brand:	That was her maiden name.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. Jane Watson. Her name was Watson.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, Watson, ok. So Lora was her nickname?
Ms. Agee:	No, that was her real name.
Ms. Brand:	Her real name, ok. And she had two middle names?...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Lucy Jane - Watson. Alright. And so she was actually from Esmont...
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	And your father was from Goochland.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah
Ms. Brand:	Ok. You wouldn't happen to know when they were born, would you?
Ms. Agee:	My mother was born in November the 19th.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, that's my sister's birthday... [laugh]
Ms. Agee:	1910.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Ms. Agee:	Now, my father - I'm not sure about that.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. How old were you when you moved back to Goochland?
Ms. Agee:	I was about - when we moved back I was about - about 6 or 7 or something like that.
Ms. Brand:	You said 'when we moved back' - you moved together with him?
Ms. Agee:	No. When he moved back I was about 6 or 7.
Ms. Brand:	Do you know why he moved back?
Ms. Agee:	I don't really know why he moved back, no.
Ms. Brand:	Did the rest of the kids go with him, or...
Ms. Agee:	No, my brother went back - my oldest brother, which is James - he went back to live with him for a while but he came back.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. And the rest all stayed with your mother?
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	So how was your mother supporting everyone?
Ms. Agee:	It was hard to do, but she succeeded. But certain ways she - she worked a little bit - odd jobs, you know, like taking in washing and - there was white families in the neighborhood and she was going to help to clean their house or something like that. And I think - I'm trying to think if she was on assistance, but I...
Ms. Brand:	On what?
Ms. Lawrence:	On assistance.
Ms. Agee:	On assistance.
Ms. Brand:	On assistance.
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm. Welfare or something like that.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	I don't think so. And also we had a niece that I raised - that my mother and I raised. And her name was Lola. We had her from age, like about, three months old. We raised her up.
Ms. Brand:	Who was her mother?
Ms. Agee:	Willie Mae.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Ms. Agee:	And Willie Mae moved to New York, and that's where - she died there. She didn't ever come back.
Ms. Brand:	Oohh...
	[pause]
Ms. Brand:	So you just kept on raising her.
Ms. Agee:	Oh, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Where is she now?
Ms. Agee:	Grown and have kids of her own, and doing well.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, yeah? That's wonderful.
Ms. Agee:	She's just like a daughter to me. Just like a daughter.
Ms. Brand:	Is she around in the area?
Ms. Agee:	No, she lives in Kent's Store - near Kent's Store.
Ms. Brand:	Kent's Store, yeah.
Ms. Agee:	Anyway, but every Christmas she will come and we have dinner, just like we did when my mother was [unclear] [?]. Everybody have dinner. And she's just a sweetie. She's a sweetheart.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
	[clapping in the background in response to the arrival of a certain man]
Ms. Brand:	Who's that?
Ms. Lawrence:	[laughs]
Ms. Agee:	Lorraine's husband - One of the guys who will come here [the Center] at times.
Ms. Brand:	Oh ok [laughs]. You said it's Elaine's husband?
Ms. Agee:	Lorraine. Right there, he's talking to her.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Ms. Agee:	And she will come drop... I guess, all during the holidays she will give me things - you know, and she's sweet. She gave me money to help me on my teeth. I haven't gotten it yet, but... [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	She gave you money to...?
Ms. Agee:	To help with my teeth, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	To help what? Your teeth?
Ms. Agee:	Um, to help towards my teeth. Pay my dentures.
Ms. Brand:	That's nice.
Ms. Agee:	But, she's just sweet. Then, I have... you asked me some questions. [laughs]
Ms. Lawrence:	[laughs]
Ms. Brand:	You just keep going.
Ms. Lawrence:	I have a question.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.
Ms. Lawrence:	Is that ok? Oh, you were just about to say something?
Ms. Agee:	No, go ahead...
Ms. Lawrence:	No, no, no - you go ahead.
Ms. Agee:	No, I didn't have anything to say...
Ms. Lawrence:	Are you sure?...
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Lawrence:	Ok, I thought you were asking for a question - did you ever go to work with your mother - when she was doing the odd jobs, or going to...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I did. I did go with her. She used to have us to sit down and be really quiet, you know. We had to sit a certain place and don't make any noise or anything, and when she'd finish she would let us go home - she'd bring us back home and what-not.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Agee:	I was small. I don't remember, but I know we had to be quiet.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Lawrence:	Not touch.
Ms. Brand:	You remember that you were...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, don't touch anything.
Ms. Brand:	Right... you said 'we had to go'? Who else?
Ms. Agee:	Me and my other sister - me and my sister Barbara, one or two youngest ones.
Ms. Brand:	Why did she take you along, you think?
Ms. Agee:	Because she have nobody else to keep us.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Ms. Agee:	I guess you figured the older children would let us get into something, rather than watch us.
Ms. Lawrence:	Your grandfather was at home.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, he stayed at home, and my mother helped watch him while he was home, yeah.
Ms. Lawrence:	But she didn't leave the youngest children with him, for him to take care of you.
Ms. Agee:	No, no.
Ms. Brand:	So you went a lot.
Ms. Agee:	Quite often... it was quite often.
Ms. Brand:	Quite often, yeah.
Ms. Agee:	And as we got older she would send us to those, to one that she did for, that she cleaned for. She would send us to get butter or milk or something, and then when we got older we could help and stuff like that.
Ms. Lawrence:	So you knew the people.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, we knew them. In fact, they were - Ms. Fanny. We called her Ms. Fanny.
Ms. Brand:	Ms. Fanny.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	That's the family -
Ms. Agee:	That was the family - and I think they weren't married, and they were maids, old maids. They weren't married.
Ms. Lawrence:	More than one.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, two of them. Two sisters.
Ms. Lawrence:	Two sisters, huh. And both you called Ms. Fanny?
Ms. Agee:	No, one was named Ms. Fanny. I don't know what they other one's name was. I remember Ms. Fanny.
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh. You used to talk to her?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, we used to talk.
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh. And she gave you the butter and... what else?
Ms. Agee:	And milk.
Ms. Brand:	Milk. And was that the payment?
Ms. Agee:	No, that was something that mama could settle afterwards out if she needed it and but we would get our portion up there.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Ms. Agee:	And then she would try to give us - she'd give us bread, but it was always stale... [laughs]
Ms. Lawrence:	[laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Stale bread...
Ms. Lawrence:	Thanks a lot...
Ms. Agee:	And mama said we can't eat it
Ms. Lawrence:	Unless you soak it in those beans at school, maybe.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
	[pause]
Ms. Agee:	Alright.
Ms. Brand:	You said - you were talking about Christmas dinners, that - just like your mom used to have...
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	I was wond...
Ms. Agee:	Oh, yeah - we still have them. I usually have Christmas at my house, and all the family would come...
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh. You used to do that.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, we still do!
Ms. Brand:	Yeah? And your mom used to do it?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, she used to do it.
Ms. Brand:	And how did she used to do it? How did she use to have it?
Ms. Agee:	She used to cook on - we used to have a - this is before I moved where I am now. We used to have a wood stove. And we used to get all that cooking done - mama used to cook - we wouldn't have turkey, she'd have chicken. A baked hen. And then she'd have coconut cake.
Ms. Brand:	Coconut?
Ms. Agee:	Coconut cake.. caramel cake...
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Ms. Agee:	Chocolate cake... lemon pie...
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm!
Ms. Agee:	And greens, and... she would have the whole works. And she had food to last for a week. And it's amazing how the food wouldn't spoil, cause we didn't have a refrigerator.
Ms. Brand:	How didn't it spoil?
Ms. Agee:	That food would not spoil!
Ms. Lawrence:	Huh.
Ms. Brand:	Huh.
Ms. Agee:	Potato salad...
Ms. Brand:	I wonder why.
Ms. Agee:	I don't know. But it didn't spoil.
Ms. Lawrence:	She did this all herself?
Ms. Agee:	All by herself! I would help some, but she would do the majority of it.
Ms. Lawrence:	How long would it take her?
Ms. Agee:	She would start, like maybe Thursday. And she would be constantly in that kitchen cooking.
Ms. Lawrence:	Three days did you say?
Ms. Agee:	About three - she took about three-five-probably about a week.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Lawrence:	I can see that.
Ms. Agee:	But she will have - other people to come.
Ms. Brand:	She would?
Ms. Agee:	And eat - you know, just serve them, and have, slice some cake, invite them in.
Ms. Lawrence:	So, beyond your family? Other people...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah!
Ms. Lawrence:	Outside the family.
Ms. Brand:	Like who? Do you remember?
Ms. Lawrence:	Just neighbors would drop by, or what have you. And our favorite thing was, she used to make light rolls, you know, homemade light rolls?
Ms. Brand:	Homemade what?
Ms. Agee:	And she... homemade light rolls.
Ms. Brand:	Light rolls?
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	What are those?
Ms. Agee:	Bread. Homemade rolls. You know, you have to rise them and what not - she would make that and she would give them away as a gift - a dozen or a half a dozen, or what not, to a friend of hers...
Ms. Lawrence:	Generous.
Ms. Agee:	And I used to ask her, I said 'mama, why don't you sell your bread?' she said 'no, I don't want to do that. I'm giving them away.' And sometimes I had walked next door talking to somebody's son or whatever like that. And she would call em 'come and get 'em'
Ms. Brand:	That was really nice.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Was that common?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, she did it often times.
Ms. Brand:	And did people do that a lot? Just give things to each other?...
Ms. Agee:	A lot, yeah, back then.
Ms. Brand:	What kind of things would it be?
Ms. Agee:	Anything, if you needed something you'd just go - if you needed sugar, or flour, or what have you, you just go next door and they'd give it to you, whatever.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Ms. Lawrence:	And did she do the same thing with - um - not just things to eat, but helping each other out with caring for the kids, or, you know, stuff like that?
Ms. Agee:	Oh yeah.
Ms. Lawrence:	How did that work?
Ms. Agee:	It worked fine. Because I know we helped - she.. and her and I both, we helped with someone else's kids to bring them in and help while they were in school or, you know, or some other work or something like that.
Ms. Brand:	So you used to take in - other - other community members' children?
Ms. Agee:	Sometimes, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And then other people would watch over you?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Do you remember any of those families?
Ms. Agee:	Oh, boy...
	[pause]
Ms. Agee:	One... I can remember one Lillian Coletrane.
Ms. Brand:	Lee?...
Ms. Agee:	Lill- Lillig- [tongue tied; laughs]
Ms. Lawrence:	Lillian.
Ms. Brand:	Lillian.
Ms. Agee:	Coletrane.
Mieka Brand & Sarah Lawrence:	Coletrane.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, her son. And... there's more but I can't think... let's see. Hm...
	[pause]
Ms. Agee:	Oh, now - Frances Smith.
Ms. Brand:	Smith?
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm
	[pause]
Ms. Agee:	Evelyn Randolph.
Ms. Brand:	Evelyn Randolph.
Ms. Lawrence:	Randolph?
Ms. Agee:	Randolph.
Ms. Lawrence:	Randolph.
Ms. Agee:	(spells out) D-O-L-P-H
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Agee:	That's about it.
Ms. Brand:	What do you remember of your grandfather?
Ms. Agee:	Not much... not much about him.
Ms. Brand:	Did he pass away when you were pretty young?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. And I had uncles, too, and they passed away when I was young too.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, your mother's brothers?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, two brothers. I was young when they passed. I know their names was Wilbert and Johnny. That's all I know.
Ms. Brand:	Willard and Johnny?
Ms. Agee:	Wilbert. Wilbert and Johnny. But I never remembered them - you know, really having associated with them.
Ms. Brand:	Right. What kind of memories do you have from your brothers and sisters - growing up with them?
Ms. Agee:	Oh, quite a bit.
Ms. Brand:	Any stories?
Ms. Agee:	Well - I know - we would - we lived in this little house above the road - two-room house.
Ms. Brand:	Two room?.
Ms. Agee:	Two room. But my older sister had left home.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Ms. Agee:	But my brother had gone to stay with his father.
Ms. Brand:	What's that? Sorry...
Ms. Agee:	My brother had gone to stay with his father, my sister had moved to New York... and, uh, my mother had left my brother and me and... she would leave us to care for the youngest - you know, sometimes the mother would leave the oldest to take care of the youngest.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	So I was to take care of my brother and my sister, but two better than one I guess. Dut she would leave me to take care of him. And that one day she left me... he did something. And I took him - went outside and took a rock and hit him.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, dear!
Ms. Agee:	I hit him, and it hit him right between the eye, and I said 'Charles,' I said, 'don't tell mama, on me, what I did.' And the minute mama come home she asked him, 'what happened?' He told her that I had got him...
Ms. Brand:	The whole thing!
Ms. Agee:	And I had tried... I had a temper back then... I really had a temper. And I... if I hit you I hurt you.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Agee:	So, anyway, I'd - I got out of that one after she [unclear] and I - I didn't try that anymore.
Ms. Brand:	[laughs]
Ms. Agee:	Didn't try that anymore.
Ms. Brand:	Mm.
Ms. Agee:	But, my sisters and brothers and me, we would go have a big - go down in the woods?
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Agee:	And we would have a play house.
Ms. Brand:	Hm!
Ms. Agee:	That we would clean - clean it off, real clean and sweep it off, you know?
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	And have chairs, and have an old log, or something for a chair.
Ms. Brand:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Agee:	And we would have the best old time - have old pots and pans, we had to cook on.
Ms. Brand:	Sure.
Ms. Agee:	Have neighbor children come in. [laughs]
Ms. Lawrence:	Fun...
Ms. Agee:	And we would really have a time.
Ms. Brand:	Wow...
Ms. Agee:	Yes indeed. And I remember my sisters, before they left home, when we had to have. We had to have - wood? And my brother, he would throw away all the axes, you know, so he wouldn't have to get the wood.
Ms. Lawrence:	All the what?
Ms. Agee:	Wood. Axe. Axe. Axe.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh.
Ms. Agee:	And we would have to go into the woods and cut wood enough for to last for a day, for the whole day, and then for the next - until we get home that evening. And that was for mama to wash with, had to bring water for her to wash with, and all of that.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	So, anyway, after we would get the wood we would have an old tub - you might know what I'm talking about - a tub? We'd have a tub that we would stack the tub about [indicates with her hand] about so high. And one would get on one handle of it, and one on the other handle-that's how we would carry our wood to the house, and stack it up, till we get there, and then we would have enough wood to last until we get off that evening [laughs] start all over again!
Ms. Lawrence:	Is that in the morning, or after school?
Ms. Agee:	That was after school that we would do that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Hm.
Ms. Agee:	And on Saturday she would have more time for to get to work - for that stuff. And I remember after - when it was pretty, like in the evening time, we'd live next door to a family, and they had this big field. So after we would do our dishes and do our thing, our evening work, we would have a big ball game - and we would go in that field, and we couldn't wait to get out there, and-
Ms. Brand:	Girls, too.
Ms. Agee:	Girls and boys together-and play that, play that...
Ms. Lawrence:	Baseball?
Ms. Agee:	Baseball. Uh-huh. Baseball. And sometimes I have a [unclear] [?]
Ms. Brand:	So who were the girls and boys that played?
Ms. Agee:	The Agees, the Agees, you know that I - my husband that I married him and his sisters and brothers. Some up there, some down here now. Sister-in-law... ex-sister-in-law. And they had big families - there was eleven of them. There was eleven...
Ms. Lawrence:	That's a whole team.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, it was a team.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. [laughs] Yeah. The Agees were eleven.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. So - who owned this field?
Ms. Agee:	The Agees.
Ms. Brand:	They owned the field.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, they owned that field.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. So they had a lot of land.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, they had land.
Ms. Brand:	Were they well to do?
Ms. Agee:	Sort of... I would say so. To me they seemed like they had a lot. They had a lot - cause they had cattle, and all like that - [unclear]. They had - that was their land.
Ms. Brand:	So how did you meet - how did you get to marry one of the Agee boys?
Ms. Agee:	Well, right next door like, so... [laughs] Just fell for him! [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. How long - when did you marry?
Ms. Agee:	I married about 1964. 1964, and I - I should have brought my book for you to read. I wrote a book...
Ms. Brand:	You did!
Ms. Lawrence:	Ooh!
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. That was in 199... not a book, it was a story.
Ms. Brand:	Sure. I w- I would love to see it.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. It was a story I wrote. I went to the literacy - liter... [tongue-tied; laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Literacy?
Ms. Agee:	You know what I'm trying to say.
Ms. Lawrence:	Liturgy? A liturgy?
Ms. Brand:	No, literacy
Ms. Agee:	Literacy. You know what I'm trying to say - literacy. You know, when you can read good?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, literacy.
Ms. Agee:	I entered that program and I wrote a story from that.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah!
Ms. Lawrence:	Mmm!
Ms. Agee:	I wrote two stories. One short story and one long one.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Ms. Agee:	And that was in '98 and '99, I think, I wrote the story.
Ms. Lawrence:	We'd love to see that.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Ms. Agee:	But anyway my marriage...
Ms. Brand:	Could you maybe bring it next week?
Ms. Agee:	Y... you'll be here next Thursday?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, we could do it
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah!
Ms. Brand:	Alright.
Ms. Agee:	Alright. And I, um. My marriage didn't hold out but nevertheless... nevertheless.
Ms. Brand:	It never?
Ms. Agee:	Nevertheless my marriage didn't hold out.
Ms. Lawrence:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	I had two children from that marriage. And as of now I have three grandchildren, possibly four.
Ms. Brand:	On the way...
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm!
Ms. Agee:	No, one great grandchild on the way.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And you said, how many grandkids you have?
Ms. Agee:	Three.
Ms. Brand:	Three grandkids. What are your kids' names?
Ms. Agee:	Tony Edward Agee, and George Agee Jr.
Ms. Brand:	So your husband's name was George?
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. George.
Ms. Brand:	So two boys.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	And...
Ms. Agee:	...three granddaughters.
Ms. Brand:	Three granddaughters.
Ms. Agee:	Two - three. Three granddaughters.
Ms. Brand:	And who do they belong to?
Ms. Agee:	Two belongs to Tony, and one to George.
Ms. Brand:	So what are Tony's children's names?
Ms. Agee:	Tabitha.
Ms. Brand:	Tabitha.
Ms. Agee:	and Courtney.
Ms. Brand:	Courtney. And George's?
Ms. Agee:	Is Shaniquia. She is a White - she's White. Tabitha White.
Ms. Brand:	Tabitha is white?
Ms. Agee:	White - in her last name, is White.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok.
Ms. Agee:	Last name is White, and she is a Agee - wasn't an Agee. Shaniqua Agee. Her mother - neither one of them are married, but Tabitha's mother died when she was - in '94.
Ms. Brand:	In '94.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. I also wrote a little poem about that.
Ms. Brand:	You did?
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	Is that in that book? [pause] You write a lot.
Ms. Agee:	I don't know about that... [laughs]
??:	Yeah, she do.
Ms. Agee:	I like doing it.
Ms. Brand:	Do you keep your stuff?
Ms. Agee:	I keep it, yeah. I try to. I got that and - what happened when I wrote that little poem?
Ms. Brand:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Agee:	I was working at University Hospital, and they took the one - one or two sentences and made a picture from it. I'll bring that down and show it. And they took that verse from it - and made me a picture.
Ms. Lawrence:	Nice!
Ms. Brand:	Oh, when you retired?
Ms. Agee:	No, I hadn't retired then. But that was - they did that for me because, you know - they just did it.
Ms. Lawrence:	In appreciation?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	I asked them to try to do something with it so they took one or two verses out of it and made a picture.
Ms. Brand:	That's so nice. Well if you don't mind sharing, I think it will be really special to see that stuff.
Ms. Agee:	But I was waiting for a show-and-tell day.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, yeah? Well -
Ms. Agee:	We have a show-and-tell day down here and I was waiting. [laughs]
Ms. Lawrence:	[laughs]
Ms. Brand:	We can do...
Ms. Lawrence:	Let us know! Or we'll come for the...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, we'll come for the show-and-tell.
Ms. Agee:	But I'll bring that before then.
Ms. Brand:	So you wrote a poem about Tabitha's mother.
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm. About the day. About, it wasn't about her mother, but it was the day after the funeral.
Ms. Brand:	I see. Yeah, it would be great to read that. Um, where did you get married?
Ms. Agee:	In Keene, Virginia.
Ms. Brand:	You were living there at the time?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I was living down there, in that community.
Ms. Brand:	Who married you?
Ms. Agee:	Reverend Monroe. It wasn't James, what's his name... I know it was Monroe.
Ms. Brand:	What church was that?
Ms. Agee:	We got married at someone's home. His sister's home. Anna Nelson's home.
Ms. Brand:	Was it a big wedding?
Ms. Agee:	No, just a small one.
Ms. Brand:	Was your mother there?
Ms. Agee:	Yes. Yes, she was.
Ms. Brand:	She must have been happy.
Ms. Agee:	Yes, she was happy. It was, it was just a little small wedding. If I had to do all over again I would but not with someone else. It would be with the same guy, because, I know it might seem funny, but I would.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. So what happened?
Ms. Agee:	No, he was... he was real cruel. And he drank a lot and always threatened me a lot about killing and killing and kill. So, I just had to go.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. Do you stay in touch with him?
Ms. Agee:	Oh yeah. By the way, he stopped by this morning. [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Oh, really? Here, at the Center?
Ms. Agee:	Uh-uh. At home.
Ms. Brand:	At your house. Oh, ok.
Ms. Agee:	Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
Ms. Brand:	Sure.
Ms. Agee:	I'm not sorry I did what I did. I'm not sorry at all.
Ms. Brand:	Was it looked upon well?... in other words, was your mom in agreement with your decision?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. In a subtle way yes. Because she, you know, she wasn't one to keep butting in, but for me to keep coming back-leave, come back, leave, come back-it was, you know, she didn't want to see me hurt in that way either. And I guess [unclear][?] cause by her saying 'do it,' she knew I wouldn't do it. [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Right. So she had to go along. [laughs]
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	She had no choice.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. That's right.
Ms. Brand:	So when did you start working at the hospital?
Ms. Agee:	In 1974.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Ms. Agee:	And I was there for 24 years.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Ms. Agee:	More sick than well, but I made it.
Ms. Brand:	More sick than well?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Really.
Ms. Agee:	That's true. Because, see in 1974 I went into the hospital for a nervous breakdown. And through that I came out and I would have relapse, and they would last a week-maybe longer-and I wouldn't go to work. But it so happens through all that time I would have-I had my time to cover me for sick leave, and I didn't have to use my, I didn't have nothing taken out my check for all the time I missed.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, so they kept on paying.
Ms. Agee:	I had my - I had to work - I had my time, to take care - I mean, you know, just like some places you don't have...
Ms. Brand:	Like sick days
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, sick days or something - but I had time to cover me, my sick time covered me, and my pay check had no money out.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, that was lucky.
Ms. Agee:	That was a blessing right there.
Ms. Brand:	That is a blessing.
	[pause; a group that left earlier comes back into the center]
Ms. Brand:	It's getting loud again. And, so what were you doing at the hospital?
Ms. Agee:	I was doing housekeeping, and I winded up from the old hospital...
Ms. Brand:	Is this UVA hospital?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, UVA. I worked at the old hospital, and when I first went there, I worked from floor to floor.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	Floor to floor. Someone was missing, I went to their floor. And I learned like that, too. I liked doing it like that. But as time went on I wanted something - one thing, you know, that I could do. So I was put on the main floor at the old hospital and I did the main floor, and I did the bathrooms, the lounges, and... I had spread out in the area. But I liked that because I got to meet the people, and I got to meet people first hand, and I also received a certificate from one of the workers that - it was a certificate for nice - meeting peop - I can't say what that was... but anyway, it was a certificate to stating how I was good with the people.
Ms. Brand:	Right, it was like an award...
Ms. Agee:	An award... something like that. Uh-huh. And I received that. And one day while I was cleaning-I was cleaning a long hall-and when I come to the end of the hall I notice this little necklace. And that little necklace, I picked it up and I carried it up to the desk and I told them, I said, 'now, if nobody claims this, I want it. This will be mine.'
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	So that night someone did claim it, and had wanted to know who had found it. It was a very sentimental piece. so they - we couldn't get together, and finally she met me and she gave me a - what do you call that thing when somebody gives you something?
Ms. Brand:	Award?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah - not award. What do you call it?
Ms. Lawrence:	A what?
Ms. Agee:	What do you call it when someone gives you something that you've found for them?
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh, reward.
Ms. Agee:	Reward.
Ms. Brand:	Reward, reward.
Ms. Agee:	Reward, reward. Gave me a reward of $25.
Ms. Brand:	Wow!
Ms. Lawrence:	Wow!
Ms. Agee:	For finding her necklace.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. She was a patient?
Ms. Agee:	No, she was a friend of a patient that was in there, and that's what happened.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Ms. Agee:	So I said, well. You know, no matter what at the hospital, if something would happen, they would think housekeeping did it regardless. If something bad happened, we did it.
Ms. Brand:	Right. Hm.
Ms. Agee:	So I told them, I said, 'my name should be put in the paper somewhere saying 'housekeeping didn't steal' that it had happened.' That housekeeping don't take everything.
	[pause]
Ms. Agee:	That's it.
	[pause]
Ms. Agee:	But I enjoyed doing my work. I went to - I worked on the 7th floor. In the end I worked on the 7th floor in the new hospital.
Ms. Brand:	What floor is that?
Ms. Agee:	Kids - pediatric clinic.
Ms. Lawrence:	Kids?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, kids. And when I... that's where I ended up, doing that. They - I lost my thought - the teachers and things, and I had a part of that a lot, too. I have my list of everything I did on that floor. Cause you know, when I retired they had to know what I did, so I kept a list. I wrote down everything... I couldn't do it now, though! I wrote down that list of what I had to do.
	[pause]
Ms. Brand:	We're doing good, yeah, it's 110 minutes [the cassette]
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh, good.
	[someone is passing around with a small box and everyone puts a dollar in it. they pass by us and Ms. Agee puts her money in it]
Ms. Brand:	This is a collection?...
Ms. Lawrence:	Uh-uh, that's for lunch.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah.
	[a white lady with an apron comes out of the kitchen, stands by us:]
Lady (to Ms. Agee):	You're not telling them too much, are you?
	[laughter all around]
Lady:	[you're not telling them all the stuff you tell me now, are you?]
Ms. Agee:	No!!
Ms. Lawrence:	We'll talk to you later!
Lady:	I signed a confidentiality...
	[laughter]
Ms. Agee:	That's OK. I'll give it later. Yeah, so um... what was I saying?
Ms. Brand:	About the list that you made?...
Ms. Agee:	Oh yeah. I made a list of everything I was paid to do. They didn't tell me - you know, cause when we were there we didn't have a list of what we did, we just did it.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	So I just made a list of everything.
Ms. Lawrence:	It was up here. [points to head]
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. I knew what I had to do, but I couldn't do it now... I knew where I had to go, and what I had to do then.
Ms. Brand:	But you couldn't do it now why? Because you couldn't remember?
Ms. Agee:	No, no, no. Oh, and I know - when I worked at the hospital I had never critical area too long, the NICU-Newborn Intensive Care-and other places? I wasn't supposed to be put in those areas, but I was. And I would do it, and I would have a relapse.
Ms. Lawrence:	Ohh...
Ms. Brand:	Ohh.
Ms. Agee:	And they asked me, 'why do you do it if you know...' I said, 'well, I don't look at it as helping myself,' I say 'I look at it as helping the children and what not.' I say, at the time I'm not thinking about myself.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	I just do it and that's what the results from it. I still couldn't help from doing it because I'm trying to help them, not the doctors. They asked me because I think it's something that I feel like I must do to help the sick.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	But...
Ms. Brand:	But it would give you relapses.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I had relapses.
Ms. Lawrence:	So it was the children's ICU?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. NICU.
Ms. Brand:	So what would happen when you would have a relapse - what...
Ms. Agee:	I would, I couldn't function. I couldn't talk like I'm talking to you...
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Ms. Agee:	I couldn't do that. I would be slow at talking - I just couldn't respond. And the doctors would send me home. I would be home when the doctor tell me for about a week, then I would come around and go back to work!
Ms. Brand:	So you would never go to a doctor.
Ms. Agee:	Well, I had been hospitalized, but if he could treat me at home they would allow me to be treated at home.
Ms. Brand:	So the doctor would come to the house?
Ms. Agee:	No, no - I would go to Region Ten.
Ms. Brand:	To Region Ten?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Ms. Agee:	And the doctor would see me there, or call the family and tell my son or what not what to do, or...
Ms. Brand:	Right, yeah... how long has Region Ten been around?
Ms. Agee:	Oh, ever since 197... 1974 is all I know.
Ms. Brand:	Huh.
Ms. Agee:	Long time. They've been around a long time.
Ms. Brand:	I didn't realize it was that long.
Ms. Agee:	And I've been under their care since then, and still take medication and everything. I'm on two kinds of medication. I try to keep my medication right here [pulls a card out of her purse].
Ms. Brand:	You wrote this out, or someone wrote this for you?
Ms. Agee:	I did.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, ok. You've got great handwriting!
Ms. Agee:	Oh. [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	So neat, my goodness!
Ms. Agee:	It's getting weak now! [laughs]
Ms. Brand:	Look at that.
Ms. Lawrence:	Oh my gosh. I don't even want to show you mine.
Ms. Agee:	[laughs] It's getting weak now.
Ms. Brand:	So these are all the... all the things you take.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. You remember to take it all?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I remember because I have a little pill box.
Ms. Brand:	Oh yeah, so to - I see.
Ms. Agee:	I use it.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. Good for you. For remembering.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I have a pill box.
Ms. Brand:	What kinds of things did people used to go to the doctor for back in the day? You know, when you were coming up?
Ms. Agee:	Foot - well, most of the time, if you weren't that sick and if your mother could do it for you, she would - they would give their home remedy for you. And the -
Ms. Brand:	So what kinds of things would that be?
Ms. Agee:	For - for what, now. I'm thinking... for anything like a broken bones or something like that.
Ms. Brand:	That would be home remedy?
Ms. Agee:	No, not home remedy for that. That's for a doctor. Home remedy - like a bad cough, or a whooping cough or something like that, I don't remember.
Ms. Lawrence:	Do you remember what the remedies were?
Ms. Agee:	For whooping cough they give us lamp oil and sugar.
Ms. Brand:	What's the first thing?
Ms. Agee:	Lamp oil.
Ms. Brand:	Oil?
Ms. Agee:	Oil. Yeah. Like, kerosene.
Ms. Brand:	Kerosene, yeah.
Ms. Agee:	Kerosene and sugar.
Ms. Brand:	Really.
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	And what would you do with it - drink it?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, she'd put it on the spoon, and a spoon.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
Ms. Agee:	Teaspoons. Add it together.
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	And then you take that.
Ms. Brand:	Really! Hm. Kerosene. Did it help?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah! It did.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. How did she know to do that?
Ms. Agee:	I don't know - they did it. I didn't do it. My mother's family did it, but I -
Ms. Brand:	But it worked.
Ms. Agee:	It worked. Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	That's what counts.
Ms. Agee:	And for a sore throat she'd give you warm water and salt.
Ms. Brand:	Mmm... Oh yeah, did you ever do warm water and vinegar?
Ms. Agee:	No.
Ms. Brand:	That's what my mom used to do for a cough.
Ms. Agee:	Really?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. But we did the salt too - gargle it.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Spit it out. Ugh. Gross.
Ms. Agee:	[laughs] And for to clean up your system, turpentine - I think it was turpentine for that... it was... yeah, it was turpentine.
Ms. Brand:	Paint thinner.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh...
Ms. Lawrence:	Where would sh...
Ms. Agee:	Was it turpentine? I think it was!
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	Turpentine.
Ms. Brand:	Turpentine.
Ms. Lawrence:	Where would she get these things?
Ms. Agee:	She would have these around the house. Something they should have around the house anyway.
Ms. Lawrence:	Mm-hm. And was there a store around to shop at?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, there was a store not too far away, and one in Keene-we'd go in Keene-where she'd go.
Ms. Brand:	And what kind of things would you get at the store?
Ms. Agee:	Milk... we got milk from our neighbor, but we got bread... she'd make a lot of bread, though. But flour, and meal...
	[singing and piano begins]
Ms. Agee:	Sugar...
Ms. Brand:	Sugar.
	[singing "Have a little talk with Jesus / Tell him all about all about our troubles / Hear [?] cry / Answer by and by / [?] the little prayer-wheel turning / [?] a little fire is burning / Have a little talk with Jesus makes it rights"]
Ms. Lawrence:	You don't want to sing into the microphone?...
Ms. Agee:	[laughs]
Ms. Lawrence:	[laughs]
	[second stanza, Rosa Agee joins in with the singing]
	[singing continues; go around the room and each person (except for Sarah and Mieka) reads something or recites a verse (or verses) from the bible; others join in when it is a familiar verse]
	[more singing] "Ease my heart and ease my hand / Ease my soul, I pray / Ease my tongue to speak thy praise / Keep me all the way.]
	[James Jordan blesses the food]
	[singing "What a mighty God we serve / What a mighty God we serve / Angels bow before him / Heaven and earth adore him / what a mighty God we serve // This is the day that the Lord has bring / Let us rejoice and be glad in Him]
	[we say our thank-you's and stop recording]
	(end of first interview)
	(start of second interview)
Ms. Brand:	October 04, 2001. Esmont Senior Center, Esmont Virginia. Interviews by Mieka Brand and Sarah Lawrence. Alright, so I'm starting to record.
Ms. Agee:	Ok.
Ms. Brand:	Alright, so last time - gosh, you talked about a lot of stuff, but one thing that I remember especially is that you were talking about your book.
Ms. Agee:	Oh, my books?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah! I was wondering if you could tell me more about them.
Ms. Agee:	Oh...
	(pause)
Ms. Agee:	I went to the Adult Learners - this was taken on March 19th, 1998. It's a literature program in Charlottesville and I went to that...
Ms. Brand:	How did you get involved in that?
Ms. Agee:	I just felt like I needed a little more reading - caught up on my reading - and it was in the program, they asked each student to write a story. So I wrote the first year, which was in 1998... 97. I wrote one also. I wrote one that year, in '99. (refers to two booklets she pulled out) This is '98, and this one was '99.
Ms. Brand:	That's so nice how they do that...
Ms. Agee:	This was '98 and they put all the stories in a book that everyone had wrote. And I wrote one about my 55th birthday, and... I'll find it.
Ms. Brand:	(reading) "I will never forget my 55th birthday in July of 1994. Our church had planned a trip to Florida, to Disney World. My granddaughter and I were to go. The trip was planned for late July, my birthday is July 2nd. My granddaughter had paid up. I had paid on the trip but needed more money and was at a stand-still. I prayed that when my birthday came, I would get enough money to pay for the trip... [see story] "What a 55th birthday in Florida."
	(laughter)
Ms. Agee:	That was true!
Ms. Brand:	Oh, really? It was just enough money!
Ms. Agee:	Yes!
Ms. Brand:	Wow, that's a blessing.
Ms. Agee:	It was great. It was a blessing, yes indeed.
Ms. Brand:	So what did you do in Florida?
Ms. Agee:	Oh, we had a great time. We went and visited the studios, it was a long time, I can't remember, but we went to visit the studio, and...
Ms. Brand:	Like, where they make the movies?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, one of the studios there. And then we went and - where else did we go? I forgot so much places... But I know I had a great time. I didn't ride on anything, but my granddaughter did. We just walked and... enjoyed things. And then...
Ms. Brand:	What grand... oh, go ahead.
Ms. Agee:	My granddaughter that I raised.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, Lola.
Ms. Agee:	No Tabitha.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, Tabitha.
Ms. Agee:	My granddaughter is Tabitha. Lola is my niece. And she went with me and - I forget how old she was, but anyway it was raining in Florida without even a warning. Pour down rain. And you had to go for shelter somewhere... (laughs) But it was great.
Ms. Brand:	Oh wow... How long did you go for?
Ms. Agee:	We went for at least four days.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. So that was your 55th birthday.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, 55th birthday.
Ms. Brand:	So how did you find out about this literacy program?
Ms. Agee:	It was advertised - someone was advertising it. Either by the school, or what not, was advertising it...
Ms. Brand:	What school?
Ms. Agee:	The Yancey school.
Ms. Brand:	Yancey school?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. I used to help there and that's where I had my classes at - it was at Yancey school.
Ms. Brand:	Is that in Esmont?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. Yancey is...
Ms. Brand:	What is that, a high school?
Ms. Agee:	No - B. F. Yancey Elementary school.
Ms. Brand:	Ok.
	(pause)
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, that's what - it was really nice. I enjoyed the classes that was... and they put everyone who wrote a story, they put in the book. This is the one (refers to second booklet) - this one is longer than the other one. They asked us for to write another story, so I couldn't think of a topic or anything, so I wrote this one.
Ms. Brand:	I see, so wait. The one you showed me before was from 1998.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-ha (affirmation).
Ms. Brand:	And that's this book here?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. So this is - you went twice.
Ms. Agee:	No, I didn't go twice. I did two writings within the time that I was there.
Ms. Brand:	I see. So how long was the course?
Ms. Agee:	About... I think I went for a year.
Ms. Brand:	Wow, a whole year... So all these other stories are your classmates'?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, those that went. I didn't meet them or anything.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, you didn't?
Ms. Agee:	No, I didn't meet any of these. I met them at the party we had, you know, after this story was written. I received $25 for writing that story.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, really! Wow.
Ms. Agee:	And other people received it, too, but I didn't know anyone there.
Ms. Brand:	It wasn't a classroom? Was it one on one, with a tutor?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, we had one-on-one with a tutor. And my tutor taught out here at the Yancey school on Tuesdays and Thursdays
Ms. Brand:	Ok. I think I know somebody who's in that program right now. Someone out in Charlottesville. I think I've heard of it.
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	So this is 'The Core of My Life.'
Ms. Agee:	Uh-hah.
Ms. Brand:	Should I read it?
Ms. Agee:	If you wish too!
Ms. Brand:	I'd love too. Should I read it out loud?
Ms. Agee:	If you wish too!
Ms. Brand:	Yeah - that way we can have it on tape. Do you want to read it?
Ms. Agee:	No, you read it.
Ms. Brand:	You sure?
Ms. Agee:	You want me to?
Ms. Brand:	Sure.
Ms. Agee:	I can't pronounce my words good right now.
Ms. Brand:	Well...
Ms. Agee:	Um... (reads) "The Core of My Life. Since I retired because of illness, it is a challenge for me to have a teenage granddaughter in the house... [see story about how the body is like a car - goes to 13:35]
Ms. Brand:	That is - beautiful.
Ms. Agee:	Thank you.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, that's really nice.
Ms. Agee:	Thank you.
Ms. Brand:	Hm.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I could write another one now. I got heart troubles.
Ms. Brand:	Oh.. what part of the car is that?
Ms. Agee:	(laughs) I don't know! I really have heart break.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	I don't know. I'd change it. I wouldn't put the car in there this time.
Ms. Brand:	What would you put this time?
Ms. Agee:	I don't know... I'd think about it, and pray about it, and...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	Get it going.
Ms. Brand:	That's right.
Ms. Agee:	I don't know - the teacher helped me a lot, you know, to word it, and to help me where I was wrong, and - to put it together. And I appreciate that.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. You do appreciate that.
Ms. Agee:	I did! I really appreciated that.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, my teachers help me that way, too.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-hah. And she said 'you can do it!' I said, 'I can't write no story!' I told her, I said 'I can't write no story.' So she asked about the topic, and I don't know how I came up with that subject - The Core of My Life - but I wrote 2 or 3 topics and I said 'This is the one I will take.' I did fine, I did fine.
Ms. Brand:	Well, it's great. I hope you do do some more writing.
Ms. Agee:	(laughs) Well, we had a publisher somewhere for a little short story.
Ms. Brand:	A what?
Ms. Agee:	Publish it somewhere for a short story, you know?
Ms. Brand:	Yeah!
Ms. Agee:	Get a little piece of change for it...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah! And, you know, get the word out there also. That's so nice.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, but - and this (refers to a sheet of paper) is something else I wrote. This is something else I wrote - my granddaughter's mother died in 1994, and... in 1994 her mother died. And when she died I sent out thank-you notes to those that helped - money or whatever - and I put it on this card. A thank-you note on (unclear). And this is the little poem I wrote - this is the thank you card and the note also I had wrote. You can read it out loud if you wish.
Ms. Brand:	Me?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, you can read it.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. "As I sat in the truck after my granddaughter's mother's funeral, waiting for my son and granddaughter, it has been raining all day and made me sad. I thought 'there is a reason for everything on God's earth.' Then I thought, 'the rain is God kneeling and crying with his hand-covered face. Crying not for the one who is buried, but for those who do not know Him in the pardon of their sins. After hearing such a touching sermon 'Where Do I Go from Here?' Matthew 27:42, I'm sure someone was saved because Saturday God was smiling, because the sun was shining so beautifully. Written by Rosa Lee Agee." And it says, "With words, we could never thank you enough for the kindness you've showed us at the time of our bereavement. We thank you again in Jesus' name for having friends like you. May God keep on blessing you. Love, Tabitha White and Rosa F. Agee."
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh.
Ms. Brand:	So that's what you sent out?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, I sent out, I wrote thank-you notes to all those that sent something...
Ms. Brand:	I see. And so, you took Tabitha in after her mother died.
Ms. Agee:	Oh, I had had her anyway.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, you did.
Ms. Agee:	I had her since she was about four years old.
Ms. Brand:	Really!
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm.
Ms. Brand:	And you still have her.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah - she's not living with me now.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, she isn't.
Ms. Agee:	But she's getting ready to have a baby herself.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, is she? So she's grown.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, she's grown. She's 18 now.
Ms. Brand:	18, alright. I was imagining her about 14 for some reason...
Ms. Agee:	No, no - 18 now.
Ms. Brand:	Ok. So she's living on her own. She's gonna have a baby...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. Going to college - going to Piedmont [Piedmont Virginia Community College].
Ms. Brand:	That's great!
Ms. Agee:	And all that and it's great.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, that's real nice. So you're going to be a great-grandmother.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	How does that feel?
Ms. Agee:	It's sort of exciting!
Ms. Brand:	Oh, yeah?
Ms. Agee:	(laughs)
Ms. Brand:	At least you don't have to do any of the changing the diapers, right?
Ms. Agee:	I don't know about that, though. It might come to me for that...
Ms. Brand:	Oh, really! (laughs)
Ms. Agee:	I won't... (unclear) (laughs)
Ms. Brand:	Well, you have plenty of practice.
Ms. Agee:	Oh, boy. I've enjoyed it, though.
Ms. Brand:	It must be real different raising kids these days.
Ms. Agee:	It is different. It is different and difficult.
Ms. Brand:	Which one is harder, do you think?
Ms. Agee:	This day and time.
Ms. Brand:	Now?
Ms. Agee:	Yes.
Ms. Brand:	Huh. How come?
Ms. Agee:	They have so much to get into now! Those drugs... When we were coming up as a child all we had was liquor and cigarettes - that's all we had. But now they got drugs - and not just one kind, but several kinds...
Ms. Brand:	Right.
Ms. Agee:	And it is very hard on the child to know nowadays.
Ms. Brand:	When you were growing up, it must have been... Well, the end of the Depression and Prohibition. But you must have been too young to remember Prohibition...
Ms. Agee:	I was.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, cause by the time you were old enough to think about alcohol...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah - but it was there when I was coming up.
Ms. Brand:	It was.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	You remember people drinking?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah - I've seen it.
Ms. Brand:	And was it a temptation for you?
Ms. Agee:	Since my father, he was an alcoholic.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, he was.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. No, it wasn't a temptation for me.
Ms. Brand:	It was never a problem.
Ms. Agee:	Uh-uh. (indicates no) Not a problem for me.
Ms. Brand:	But people around in the neighborhood?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. Well, in the neighborhood. And Jim (died) and my brother, he went to drinking also.
Ms. Brand:	He went to drinking. Your older brother.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah. My older brother. As for me, it didn't bother me. Alcohol (unclear).
Ms. Brand:	Right. Where would people buy alcohol?
Ms. Agee:	It was most like, then they were bootlegging.
Ms. Brand:	It was bootlegging.
Ms. Agee:	Bootlegging a lot. That's what a lot of it was. (unclear - very noisy. Woman with lunch collection basket comes around. Ms. Agee gives her a dollar) But... But I would like to have a little book with my stories in it, you know.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah! You should really do that.
Ms. Agee:	Where would you publish such a thing, though?
Ms. Brand:	You know, this, the History of Esmont - we could publish it in there.
Ms. Agee:	Really.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, you know, what we're doing is - we're putting it on the computer so young people who have access to the computer can read about what Esmont used to be like, but hopefully what we're gonna do also is print it all out into, like, a little book and give it to people around here. So if you put something together we could easily include it in, and we would love to. Yeah, I think it will be real nice, and you know - I think young people would really appreciate it. Just, you know - cause we don't know what it was like to live here - not even forty years ago.
Ms. Agee:	Yeah.
Ms. Brand:	I think people would appreciate it. I would.
Ms. Agee:	I know they would too, though.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah.
Ms. Agee:	They would.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, you know, I was thinking... maybe the thing I should ask is, you know, now that you're going to have a great-grandchild. When he or she grows up, what would you like them to know about you and your life, and about - yeah, just about you and your life and the things that you saw and experienced when you were growing up.
Ms. Agee:	Just tell her about, my life as a child, and as - being her mother's grandmother and just her... her great-grandmother! And the difference it had made through the years with each one.
Ms. Brand:	Yeah. So here is your tape, and one day we're gonna give this to your great-grandchild...
Ms. Agee:	Thank you! Really?
Ms. Brand:	I hope so! I mean, it's gonna be available. What we're going to do is make copies of all the tapes and give them to you and you can give it to your great-grandchild.
Ms. Agee:	Oh, I see. I would like for her to know how times were when, for me, and the family, and raising her mother. And also, how times were with... with the schooling, and with the... What else can I say? With the schooling part... and things that go along with a child growing up.
Ms. Brand:	Right. So what specifically? Like, what about schooling? What would you like her to know about schooling?
Ms. Agee:	About the type of things that was in the school at that time?
Ms. Brand:	So what type of things?
Ms. Agee:	Like the teachers, how the teachers were. And about what sort of books, and what sort of...
Ms. Brand:	Yeah, do you remember any of the books?
Ms. Agee:	I remember the little book we had it was, let me think, "Run Jane Run"
Ms. Brand:	Run...
Ms. Agee:	Jane Run
Ms. Brand:	Jane Run - oh, yeah.
Ms. Agee:	And there was another little one - "Spot". It was a book called "Spot."
Ms. Brand:	Just "Spot"? S-P-O-T? what was that one about?
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh. It was a little dog named Spot. And it was little dog that had a little spot on it (laughs) - white with one little spot on him. And another one...
Ms. Brand:	What's "Run Jane Run?"
Ms. Agee:	It was a little first grade book "Run Jane, run. See Jane run. Run run run."
Ms. Brand:	(laughs) You remember it!
Ms. Agee:	(laughs) Yeah! Yes, I did. Sure did. I remember that... I remember actually the one that I had in the 5th grade or something like that. I can remember that, but the books and things that are from higher, I can't remember.... and then we had geography.
	[some confusion and laughter over pronounciation - ]
Ms. Agee:	Geography - the world history, like?
Ms. Brand:	Geography!
Ms. Agee:	Yeah!
Ms. Brand:	Geography, ok. (laughter) What'd you learn in that?
Ms. Agee:	Just about, you know, about maps and things, and figuring about the map - where cities and what-not is. But I used to like biology, where you dissect the frogs and I could draw good, and...
Ms. Brand:	You all dissected frogs??
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, we dissected frogs, and we used to do the frog, and then the drawing part - everyone used to ask me to do the drawing, cause I used to draw so neat the heart and things.
Ms. Brand:	Ooh, really. You used to draw what you dissected?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, we used to draw the frogs - yeah, the frog.
Ms. Brand:	Oh, really.
Ms. Agee:	Not after he... before.
Ms. Brand:	Ok ok. So you were good at that.
Ms. Agee:	I was good at drawing that. Yes.
Ms. Brand:	You draw a lot?
Ms. Agee:	No, I don't draw now.
Ms. Brand:	But you used to?
Ms. Agee:	I used to draw like that, little stuff like that. Used to look at the picture and draw it. I didn't trace it, I looked at it and draw it like that.
Ms. Brand:	So those are the books and then...
Ms. Agee:	And... let me think about...
Ms. Brand:	You said also the teachers?...
Ms. Agee:	Oh yeah - teachers Ms. Price. I remember Ms. Price. I might have mentioned her. Ms. Price, at the old Esmont School... Ms. Price, and then I had... Mr. Faulkner was the principal.
Ms. Brand:	Faulkner?
Ms. Agee:	Uh-huh (yes).
Ms. Brand:	Were these teachers white?
Ms. Agee:	No, they were black.
Ms. Brand:	They were black teachers, ok.
Ms. Agee:	And... (pause)
Ms. Brand:	He was the principal of Esmont school?
Ms. Agee:	Mm-hm. (pause) That's about all I can remember now.
Ms. Brand:	Is there anything in particular about how the school was that you want to...
Ms. Agee:	Oh, well, just that it was a little two room school down here. A little two-room school and there was a classroom, and then inside was an old big metal stove. And they used to... whoever got there first would get the fire going.
Ms. Brand:	Who went there?
Ms. Agee:	Oh, all the kids - some of the kids from Keene and some were taken to the grade school right here. It was about 5 years old. And after, I remember, I went to about the fourth grade, because in the fifth grade I took sick with my legs and I couldn't go to school that year.
Ms. Brand:	At all! The whole year?
Ms. Agee:	That whole year I could not go to school.
Ms. Brand:	And that was rickets?
Ms. Agee:	Rickets.
Ms. Brand:	How did they find out that you had it?
Ms. Agee:	Well, I was at home after school, at evening, and I was at the woodpile, cutting wood, and I just fell. And I couldn't move any more. I couldn't walk or do anything. And my mother carried me to the doctor, to the hospital, and that's when they found out what I had.
Ms. Brand:	So they ran tests or something?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, they probably did. I don't remember, but they operated right away.
Ms. Brand:	Wow.
Ms. Agee:	And, like today, my - feel right here (puts my hand on her upper right thigh), like today my leg has...
Ms. Brand:	Oh, you've got a scar over there.
Ms. Agee:	Scar, yeah.
Ms. Brand:	That's where the operation...
Ms. Agee:	That's where the operation took place, right there.
Ms. Brand:	So what did they do?
Ms. Agee:	I don't know. They probably - it seems like they took a bone out, but I don't have any records now of what happened. But what my mother told me, she said what I had. I had stayed with a cast up to my waist, to my leg.
	(singing begins)
Ms. Brand:	Wow! For how long?
Ms. Agee:	For a year.
Ms. Brand:	For a whole year!
Ms. Agee:	What happened, they changed - from time to time they would change the cast and I would come home after it dried and then I stayed in the hospital overnight. But that's how it went on for a year, like that.
Ms. Brand:	Wow. So you missed a whole year of school.
Ms. Agee:	Yes I did.
Ms. Brand:	Anybody come to visit you when you were in the hospital?
	(piano joins the singing)
Ms. Agee:	Yeah, they came to visit me.
Ms. Brand:	I think we're going to have to finish next week...
Ms. Agee:	Yeah...
Ms. Brand:	You gonna be here?
Ms. Agee:	Yeah...
	(singing, reciting scripture & blessing the food)
	(end of second interview)
Copyright Information: Virginia Center for Digital History, University of Virginia This interview is publically accessible Text and images © copyright 2001 by the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia.

Interview of Rosa Agee on September 27, 2001 and October 4, 2001, by Mieka Brand and Sarah Lawrence of the Race and Place Project. (Oral History)